24
Jul
joker-burning-money

Over at FOSSPatents, Florien Mueller has gotten his hands on a copy of a filing containing Apple's damages claim against Samsung in their much-publicized California lawsuit. The contents indicate that Apple is seeking $2 billion in unjust enrichment damages (the amount Samsung has wrongly profited infringing Apple's design patents), along with $500 million in lost profits. A smaller $25 million royalty for various technical patents like tap to zoom and overscroll bounce is included, but only in regard to a few products.

The design patents are the damages headliners because only design patents offer the option of seeking unjust enrichment as a remedy (there are various and good reasons for this). Why so much? Apple is able to claim any amount of profit earned by Samsung on products sold that infringed those design patents. That's right, all the profit. And even for a supergiant like Samsung, $2.5 billion is a lot of cash to fork over.

Things could get worse, as well - Apple is accusing Samsung of willful infringement, meaning Samsung knew or had reason to know at the time when the infringement occurred that it was probably infringing on Apple's intellectual property, and failed to take the necessary measures to investigate that possibility, or knew and simply did it anyway. The importance of willful infringement is that in the American patent system, it allows what are called treble damages, meaning Apple could receive up to 3 times that $2.5 billion.

Of course, this all depends on what happens at trial. Samsung has asserted several standards-essential patents as well, which Apple has valued at $.0049 per device sold (basically nothing). Samsung also alleges that Apple infringes several other patents, so we'll have to see what the judge and jury think of those at trial. Will a midnight settlement emerge? I doubt it, as both companies seem to be fighting this tooth and nail. We'll be watching this one closely over the coming weeks.

FOSSPatents

David Ruddock
David's phone is an HTC One. He is an avid writer, and enjoys playing devil's advocate in editorials, imparting a legal perspective on tech news, and reviewing the latest phones and gadgets. He also doesn't usually write such boring sentences.

  • Gloria Tortorella

    Is this how competition works these days? This is an insult to technology.

    • Superguy

      According to Apple, there's no need to compete in the marketplace when you can compete in the courtroom.

  • SanjayChandra

    Samsung should be ready to face consequences whether they turn out to be good or worse.

    • glacier

      0/10, try harder.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kam.w.siu Kam Siu

      i see grammar school didn't help

    • Alan

      GTFO to Mac Rumors Troll, no one wants you here!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=714859472 Rajvir Singh

      Hey iTroll, GTFO before I trim all the wool off your iSheep skin..

  • JactationCostard26
  • L boogie

    as i recall, didnt said infringement lead to the ban of the 7.7 tab in EU? how can they possibly claim $500 million in lost profits when Apple is currently worth $619billion?

  • Graham Bloice

    That'll be the same Florian Mueller that predicted Oracle would get $6 billion from Google over the alleged Java copyrights and patents in the Dalvik VM, that were found at trial to be total nonsense.

    • SanjayChandra

      Well , the "rate" at which samsung made xerox copies , they cannot escape easily.....whoever may be the final winner but there is nothing wrong with copying , but samsung copies very blindly lol.Samsung not as intelligent as google.

    • Jon Garrett

      Florian Mueller's vagina gets all wet whenever apple wins something.

  • Superguy

    So, Apple wants $24 per device for looking like theirs (i.e. a rectangle), but only wants to pay Samsung half a cent for a 3G patent? And they have the gall to accuse Samsung of willful infringement? YGTBFKM.

    • http://twitter.com/mxfox408 Jake Fox

      If it were up to me I'd charge apple $10 per patent they use as leverage to drop the cases

  • L boogie

    Now im still waiting to see what Apple is going to post on their website in regards to Samsung not copying the ipad but got the 7.7 banned and paying half a cent for a 3g patent while financially screwing them

  • Applesucks
  • http://www.facebook.com/isaac.mann83 Isaac Mann

    This just in... Apple announces they will no longer be producing mobile devices. They have decided that they will become a law firm after realizing that they were no longer innovative in the mobile electronics field.

    • Superguy

      Apple is a law firm that happens to make phones and iPods.

      • ssj4Gogeta

        This ↑

    • onpoint G

      I like that and also @superguy comment as well

    • drvadlamudi

      They seem to be really innovative in the courtroon.

  • Ramon Herrera

    Linking to either FOSSPatents or to anything from F. Mueller can hurt one's credibility.

    If the topic covers the intersection of law and technology, Groklaw is a MUCH better source to cite.

    • Abhisshek Das

      Can't Agree More . Artem Are You Listening :)

    • http://www.androidpolice.com/ David Ruddock

      Listen, Florien Mueller may not exactly be what I'd call unbiased, but he rarely if ever gets the facts wrong. He does the research, he clearly takes pride in his work, and I trust him when it comes the getting the raw details right. Don't get me wrong, I like Groklaw, but they're rarely quick enough for us to use as a source consistently.

      • drksilenc

        he has almost everytime it relates to google...

        • MattEden

          You're misinterpreting "facts" for "analysis". Muelleor will list every factual detail of the court case down very accurately. His later analysis is where the problems come in and his blatant bias comes into play. I wouldn't give his analysis much credence but I agree with David on him when it comes to facts.

  • Goldenpins

    Apple wants $2.02 per unit for the “overscroll bounce” technology that bounces lists when the reach the top or bottom. The company also wants $3.10 for its “scrolling API,” and $2.02 for “tap to zoom and navigate.” Its pretty sad they want to control gesture based movements on touch screen items.

  • http://www.facebook.com/hudspeth Mathew Hudspeth

    So I'm curious if Apple have considered that the only reason any of their devices currently run is because of Samsung technology (i.e. processors). It seems unwise to try to rip off your supplier for 2.5 billion bucks. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't want to do business after that.

    I think all the Android manufacturers (and Google) need to team up with all their lawyers to bitch slap Apple hard enough that they get back to a point where they try to compete with new ideas instead of expensive litigation.

    • ericl5112

      Samsung Mobile and the Samsung processor division are basically different companies. They don't seem to care if apple is screwing one and in bed with the other.

      • http://codytoombs.wordpress.com/ Cody Toombs

        I tend to agree, and Samsung has subtly hinted at this in the past. It's just like Microsoft's Game Division (XBox) fighting tooth and nail with Sony's Game Division while the OS and Media parts of Microsoft have so many deals set up with Sony that it would require a small super computer to count that high.

        An interesting point though... When all is said and done, there's still a small group of people who look at the bottom line for all of their divisions, and they make final decisions on how things are going to work. While Apple is one of Samsung's biggest single customers, if Apple were to become the singular cause of taking Samsung's Mobile Phone division from a profit center to a loss leader, I'm not confident that some very angry people in suits aren't going to start taking things personally. Frankly, I don't think Apple is going to get more than a few million as a final settlement; but if Apple buys out the right judges and this somehow goes in front of a bunch of hillbillies who are confounded by a power button, Apple could win this. If Apple wins the amount they are asking for, I think there's a real possibility that the entirety of Samsung might go on the offensive against Apple, and that actually could be devastating to our fruity plaintiff. Sure, Apple designs some of their own hardware and I'm certain other companies could take on the manufacturing, but it's not as simple as making a call to somebody else and asking them to whip up 50 million of every part you need. Supply chain is a big word when you're at this level, and when all of the chips are on the table, not every company produces quality parts, and not every company is even willing to work with Apple anymore. If Samsung cut Apple off completely, it's realistic that it would set the following iPhone back by at least 6 months, and that could be catastrophic for their position in the smartphone world. With all that said, it's a novelty to think about, 'cause none of this is likely to happen...

    • ssj4Gogeta

      Now that they have their own design team, they can probably go to TSMC or Global Foundries for fabrication instead of Samsung.

  • New_Guy

    Wow...someone's obviously sour about the adjustments they need to make to their website =)...

    • SebaKL

      Top that with the lost of the share of market to S2/S3/Nexus and Nexus 7.
      I can only imagine, being so cocky and arrogant about their "superior and innovative" technology, reading headline; "UK S3 sales beat iphone's 3 best months of sales combined, in less than a month from launch. Retailers running out of stock due to unprecedented demand", (as per WIKI source). And yet, things are looking better and better, android evolves and climbing, while all Apple has to offer, is taking a piss at samsung on WWD2 opening, and animation of shredded credit card for iOS 6. Not just Sour, that's UBER Sour

      • New_Guy

        Uber sour grapes for sure. Great point.

        Samsung is outselling Apple over all in both quarters this year, they are dominating in the Android world, and has successfully differentiated itself from looking anything like Apple. They might as well get in on the gravy when they can...

  • Sorian

    Wouldn't this start to become a commercial unfair trade practice suit against Apple? Not a legal student, so if that doesn't fit, sorry.

  • SebaKL

    I love when companies come up with actual numbers for their claims. It remind me of TED' s video, "The $8 billion iPod" by Rob Reid:
    http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod.html

  • Christopher Bement

    0.0049...I don't recall my decimals well, but isn't that 49 thousandths of a cent?

    • John Petersen

      No, it's 49 thousandths of a dollar.

      • Superguy

        So pretty much a half cent per device.

    • ericl5112

      49 thousandths of a dollar. 100 thousandths of a dollar is 1 cent, so half a cent.

  • ericl5112

    Please explain the math on this one. Apple is suing for $2.5bil for samsungs profits "off apple patents", and another half a billion for lost profits (which should be in those samsung profits theoretically)? Are they saying that because samsung made their phone, apple lost half a billion dollars to the ether, alongside the fact that if samsung hadn't "copied" apple, they would have sold 0 phones? That can't be right. Even for these apple suits, that math is moronic, so I can only assume I'm reading it wrong. Maybe?

  • Robert Jakiel

    How about #fuckapple

  • Bas

    I'm getting sick of all this, the customer is getting sick of all this, NOBODY ACTUALLY WANTS THIS WAR.

  • http://twitter.com/LiiIiikEaBau5 LiiIiikEaBau5

    When will Apple stop begging money? This company is so rich that the riches of the world wont satisfy them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Joecascio2000 Joseph Cascio

    Have you seen iOS 6, no wonder there desperate. Apple is such a one trick pony. They can't better their products to beat the competition, so they will try to get rid of the competition. It angers me, because only the consumers are gonna get hurt.

  • yarrellray

    BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...Apple has spent way to much time in the courtroom. When was the last time they really looked at their crappy product that people with no real sense are walking around with. It's pretty comical these days looking at anyone with iphones they are so lost and uneducated it's preety sad. When you look up you see the GALAXY S3, GALAXY NEXUS, GALAXY NOTE, GALAXY S2 with the pipeline producing the NEXT NEXUS in november then the GALAXY NOTE 2 if you ask me Apple is simply useless they have been an after thought since 2010 as far as the tech game goes. Nothing they do in the courtroom will slow down Samsung or Android for that matter. Time has come for apple users to understand that your platform is boring and now your product matches.

    • squiddy20

      "they are so lost and uneducated it's preety sad." ...and yet you can't spell "pretty" even with autocorrect on your "pimp slapping" SGSIII. How sad.
      "producing the NEXT NEXUS in november" Considering there hasn't even been a rumor of the next Nexus phone, let alone who's going to manufacture it, you're dead wrong as usual.

    • FrillArtist

      Blah...bkah...blah. You're no man of your words. With the way you switch phones every few months, I wouldn't be surprised to see you find you buying an iphone

  • dang

    now this is ridiculous

  • barnassey thomas

    Wait if samsungs patents and devices are worthless why would they owe for loss of sales?

  • FrillArtist

    Bloody patent trolls.

  • kris37

    If I were in place of Samsung CEO, I would shut down all business with Apple. No more chipstets for gayphone and gaypad.