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Last Updated: December 11th, 2010

Note:

Let me direct you all to our most up-to-date post on this issue:

Our Response To Rohan's Blog Posting

Please leave comments there - this thread is getting a little unwieldy.

Thanks,

David

Update #4: If Notion Ink is planning to unveil Adam at CES, why are they not listed in the CES exhibitors list?

Update #3: Rohan Shravan has posted, in response to many users' concerns, some information on his blog regarding many of Notion Ink's policies, shipping costs, and warranty.

Rohan has also stated that on December 18th, a video demonstration of the Adam will be posted for all to see. The lack of media showing off the device has been explained as follows:

The Pre-Order vs CES. We do realize the lack of ‘more’ videos and hands on demo or review by our fellow technical bloggers, and deeply respect those who want to wait for the same. CES is where we intended to demo, show everything and allow for review, else there is no point for a good CES event. Pre-order was essentially for those who wanted to pre-book before Adam go out of stock (which it has already started for some variants). But now reading your comments it feels extremely unfair on our part in not releasing videos, run through and other important thing you need to know.

If this is the case, I do not follow the business logic. CES is an event at which manufacturers demo unreleased technology - technology that has years of development ahead of it before it is ready for consumers. Frankly, most of the technology at CES isn't even usually interesting to consumers - it's more about attracting investors and distributors. That's not exactly a secret, either: CES describes itself as a "trade only event".

The lack of an FCC approval has also been addressed:

FCC: We shared the information that it is expected in early 20s. Even if it gets delayed, it will be in December, and this is specifically the reason why first Adam will only be shipped on 6th January.

Translation: they don't have FCC approval yet. The FCC is fickle, bureaucratic, and rarely are approvals able to be accurately predicted. I won't be convinced of this one until I see the filing - something Rohan has not provided.

Rohan has also discussed the return and warranty policies of Notion Ink, in particular comparing them with Apple's. What Rohan fails to mention is that neither Apple, Dell or Samsung charge restocking fees or shipping when replacing defective or incorrectly shipped devices. Manufacturers generally take full responsibility for a product which is defective or not delivered to specification, placing no cost (other than lost time) on the consumer.

A seven day return policy, then, seems less reasonable than 21, 14, or even 10, especially when you're asking your customer to pay for it. You can also expect a much slower turnaround time with Notion Ink. Dell, Samsung, and Apple all have US distribution centers and efficient supply chains to replace your hardware quickly (usually!). Notion Ink, unless I've missed something, has no US distributor or repair center.

Finally, regarding shipping costs, I can see the logic in Rohan's assertion. Shipping direct from the manufacturer in China is expensive for a smaller company, though $50 is still a little steep for most people to stomach.

In the end, I speak (with authorization) for the entire Android Police team: we'd like nothing more than to eat our words and see an Adam on our doorstep.

Update #2: Notion Ink has now integrated the warranty, return, and sales policy into the order confirmation screen. No shipping or billing address is still required to reach the payment screen. The return refund fees have changed:

  • 5% Repack fee
  • 5% "Service" fee (they will charge this to you even if you want a replacement)
  • 3% Restock fee
  • Notion Ink will no longer reimburse shipping on returns, your return bag will be pre-paid, and the amount deducted from your refund, or presumably billed to you if you want a replacement. (Wow.)
  • Notion Ink reserves the right to reduce your refund by up to 75% if they find the device has been "tampered" with. Nice and vague.

Note that my quotations from the original post (excepting those from the warranty) no longer represent Notion Ink's terms for return and sales policies. Those are now shown below:

The detailed Warranty Terms & Policies, Support Details & Procedures will be shipped along with the product.

Shipping & Payments:
1. Notion Ink holds no responsibility for the shipments delayed or lost due to unforeseen & unavoidable reasons arising due to Man Made or natural circumstances.

2. The user indemnifies Notion Ink for Shipments lost or returned due to wrong address provide to Notion Ink, in such cases any extra charges or penalties applicable will be borne by buyer. Notion Ink suggests all the buyers to provide the complete address with ZIP CODE & CONTACT NUMBERS to avoid such circumstances.

3. Any Customs duty, clearance charges, handling charges or taxes levied by the customs or the Government of destination Country will be borne by the buyer & Notion Ink suggests that these charges can vary from 0% to 100% of invoice value as per Country norms.

4. Any Returns coming to Notion Ink, due to wrong address or refusal due to charges arising as stated in point 3, will attract a charge of reshipping & penalty of 10 USD along with any charges paid by Notion Ink not limited to customs duty, handling charges, taxes & service charges levied by shipping partner.

...

Return Policy:
You can initiate a refund process within 7 days of your product receipt under the following conditions stated in below points.

1. If the product is defective/ Dead on Arrival/ Incorrect, you must contact Notion Ink at preordersupport@notionink.com & open up a case for Return, In this case you need to ship the product back with all the original packaging, accessories etc along with the letter from yourself stating the reason. After the inspection of the product & evaluation of your case, Notion Ink will refund the entire amount minus 5% service fees of the invoice value. You can also opt for the replacement product at no extra cost except the 5% Service Fees of invoice value.

2. Notion Ink offers a no questions asked return policy. If you wish to return your product under this policy, you must open a case by emailing preodersupport@notionink.com & ship the product back & a Letter with reason for return to Notion Ink & after evaluation of your case & the product, Notion Ink will refund the amount after deducting the Shipping fees & service fees of 5%.

3. If in any of the cases the product is found tempered, Notion Ink Reserves the right to refuse the refund or deduct a fees up to 75% of the cost of the product as per the evaluation report of product plus a inspection fees of 9USD.

4. If in any case the Product packaging is found damaged, Notion Ink reserves the rights to deduct a amount of 5% as repackaging Plus 3% as restocking fees of the final invoice value.

Update #1: Notion Ink has taken down all of their policy (return, sales) documentation. The pre-order page has been changed to reflect a 6-8 week shipping estimate (end of January - beginning of February). We urge you to strongly consider this before you hand them a credit card number.

I still have my snippets from the documentation as it appeared before it was taken down. Presumably, changes are being made by NI. Stay tuned.

The Notion Ink Adam is a device that, on paper and in renders, sounds and looks awesome. There's no denying it - dual-mode PixelQi display, Tegra 2 dual-core processor, 3G connectivity (on some models), 1GB of RAM, and 1GB of SLC (expensive) solid-state storage.

The top-end model will cost you $549 - A  3G Galaxy S Tab, a device with far fewer features, will run you $650. Samsung is famous for the low unlocked pricing on its Galaxy S phones, and it seems unlikely the Tab carries a significantly inflated price tag. How then can Notion Ink, a startup from India, claim to be able to undercut one of the world's biggest manufacturers of memory and displays? Things aren't adding up.

Pre-order Woes

The oddities don't end there. Actually, that's just the beginning of them. Today, the CEO of Notion Ink, Rohan Shravan, teased out that pre-order links would be emailed to select customers, and they have (into spam folders). The problem is, up until a few hours ago, the links didn't even have shipment date estimates (this has silently been updated to "6-8 Weeks" for all models). We'll go ahead and provide you some images of the pre-order pages:

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Be sure to expand them, as they're full-screen images

Notice anything strange? There are no pictures of the device on the order page. Not a single one. Why? Maybe because the US is Notion Ink's biggest target market - let me explain.

In the US, it is generally against the law to advertise images of a product for purchase that does not represent what consumers can actually buy. This is categorized as misleading or false advertising. If Notion Ink doesn't have a final production version of the Adam yet, they can't go showing consumers pictures of a prototype next to a big button that says "BUY" if it doesn't represent what will actually be in the box. Lazy (or "minimalist") web design is, of course, the alternate explanation.

The order page also fails to indicate the presence of previously promised color choices. Even more strangely, there is no mention of what frequency bands are available for the 3G-capable models. Some have speculated that NI will ship different bands based on country, or that you will be prompted to choose later. This sounds extremely unlikely - again, consumers are not being informed what it is they're actually buying. And they are buying something, as they're billed the entire price of the device plus shipping upon pre-ordering.

NI is also offering flat-rate shipping. From India China. The cost? $50 - to any country on the pre-order page's list. Their list includes Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba, and well over 150 other nations, via DHL. Something tells me $50 won't fit the bill when you're shipping to Kabul.

Many commenters on Notion Ink's blog are also reporting failed pre-orders. This may simply be due to an overload of NI's server(s).

Return Fees? You Betcha!

Notion Ink's documentation regarding policies on returns and sales is sketchy at best. The documents are clearly unfinished (i.e. the Sales Policy is missing major information) and poorly formatted. There is also conflicting information - take the return policy fees:

Therefore, if the product is returnable and you send it back to us unopened in the original box, within ten (10) days from the date the product is delivered to you, we will offer you a full refund, subject to a deduction of five percent (5%) from the purchase price towards processing fees.

Compared to, in the same paragraph:

Notion Ink will charge a restocking fee of ten percent (10%) for the returned product and additional ten percent (10%) repackaging fee if the product is returned as open hardware or distorted package.

This may either be inconsistency or outright greed. My own reading suggests that every returned Adam will be subject to at least 15% of the purchase price (so for the 3G Pixel Qi model, at least $75) for any return requesting a refund, for any reason. This is apparently confirmed in a much later paragraph:

As soon as we receive notice of your cancellation of the order and receive the returned product in our warehouse, we will refund the purchase price for that product after deducting:

2. Five percent (5%) processing fees; 3. Ten percent (10%) restocking fee; 4. Additional ten percent (10%) repackaging fee, if the product is returned as open hardware or distorted package; 5. The products normal postage charge; and 6.Any import duties or taxes that Notion Ink has paid for delivery of products to you.

What does this intentionally ambiguous language mean? It means if you received a defective Adam tablet and want a refund (note: not a replacement), Notion Ink will deduct from your refund the processing, restocking, and open box fees. This will amount to 25% of the original cost (for the 3G Pixel Qi model, this is over $130).

Notion does say they will pay for the shipping costs in both directions, though. Notion's basic shipping fee is $50 for DHL, a quick estimate for a 3lb package shipped by DHL to New Delhi (you have to return it to Notion directly) indicates it will cost you roughly $100.

Oh, and there's this hidden nugget in the sales policy as well (this could in theory get very expensive):

Any Customs duty, clearance charges, handling charges or taxes levied by the customs or the Government of destination Country will be borne by the buyer & Notion Ink suggests that these charges can vary from 0% to 100% of invoice value as per Country norms. (Emphasis ours)

Ten Days

Don't worry, kids - it gets even better. How long do you have to return your device if you don't like it, or if they shipped the wrong model? That's a damn good question, and I can't give you a clear answer. Notion Ink's brilliant documentation has done a great job confusing me:

Notion Ink guarantees to return your money, if you are unhappy for any reason with your purchase and return to us the product in its original condition within ten (10) days from the date you received the product. (Emphasis ours)

For those of us in the States - or even worse, UK customers - this sounds absurd. 30-day return policies are the golden rule for electronics in the US, and although I don't personally know the rule in the UK, I can't imagine ten days is the norm. Particularly for something that's shipping across an ocean.  Now compare that to this statement later in the document:

5. Product(s) must be received by the Notion Ink returns center within ten (10) calendar days from when the return was requested.

An optimistic reader might think that you must ship the device within ten days of requesting a return, and a return must be requested within ten days of your receipt of the device - a maximum of about 20 days. A more pessimistic interpretation would suggest that Notion Ink must receive the device within ten days of your receiving the initial shipment. In the end, you have ten days to decide whether or not you want to keep the device or return it and pay Notion Ink's absurd fees.

Notion also makes the absurd statement that if your Adam is DOA (Dead on Arrival), you must tell them within ten days. How they would know this is beyond me. But if you want to get technical, Notion could, theoretically, refuse to refund you if they discovered during inspection that your device must have been DOA and you failed to abide by the ten day rule.

Warranty?

We discovered Notion Ink's warranty on the Payment Confirmation page. Here it is in its entirety:

Warranty Policy:
1. Every product purchased from Notion Ink Web store is entitled for 1year
International Limited Warranty under following Conditions-
a. Unlimited Email Support (preordersupport@notionink.com)
b. Limited Telephonic Support
c. Limited warranty of 180 days on Battery, entitle for replacement if the
Battery life is less than 50% under normal conditions.

2. To avail the Technical Support, you need to write an email & a Customer Care
Executive will get in touch with you within 24hours for further assistance.

3. In case your products needs a physical inspection or repair, you need to ship
the product with return shipping paid to Notion Ink’s International Service
Centre’s along with an transaction number of 9USD payment made on Notion
Ink Website as International Service Assistance Fees. Notion Ink upon receipt
of the product will communicate with you on the basis of diagnosis & will
assist you further. This entire process can take 3-10 working days or more
depending upon the problem diagnosed.

4. Notion Ink upon diagnosis of the problem can replace the product with new*
product of same model (* New product can be new, refurbished or equivalently
functional compared to the product submitted)

5. If a submitted product is found tampered with or damaged or abused or under
conditions of illegal use as per NI policies, NI reserves the right of refusal to
warranty claims & can apply a fees as per the diagnosis.

This is the shortest device warranty (in terms of word length) I have ever seen in my life. That is a bad thing. There are a few other issues with it as well:

  • The support email is preordersupport@notionink.com, which is not exactly reassuring. How long does it take to create a mailbox?
  • Drafting: You may want to have someone spell and grammar check what purports to constitute a legal agreement.
  • $9 "Service Assistance Fee"? For a device covered under warranty?
  • The warranty makes no mention of releasing NI from liability of any kind (suggesting there is no official warranty that has even yet been drafted).

Conclusion

All in all, I'm very suspicious of Notion Ink.

The website lacks any photos of the actual device, and beyond two video demos (the last one was almost 4 months ago), we've barely seen the thing in action. All the software renders on the website are clearly from emulated instances (if not completely fabricated), and the renders of the Notion Ink have been examined by numerous comments who have pointed out that there are inconsistencies in the proportions of the device from image to image.

I'm not saying the Adam doesn't exist. The device Rohan showed off was clearly something very similar to what Notion Ink claims to be selling, but what's the reality? We just don't know, and honestly, I don't throw down $500+ for a device I've never actually seen in production form.

Source: Notion Ink

David Ruddock
David's phone is whatever is currently sitting on his desk. He is an avid writer, and enjoys playing devil's advocate in editorials, and reviewing the latest phones and gadgets. He also doesn't usually write such boring sentences.

  • Coldman

    I sure hope this is all paranoia combined with an inexperienced company, but at this point ordering blindly is only asking for trouble later. Are you all ready to commit to buying something without even verifying the product exists yet or seeing any reviews, or being able to touch it with your own hands?

    • Coldman

      Oh, and by the way, thanks for taking the time to arouse suspicion, David. You may just save someone some hard-earned money or at least some headache.

  • Ron H in Schenectady

    Wow.I'm Sooooo glad I didn't hit the SUBMIT button. I was THAT close to doing so but then decided against it. Right after that, I read your article on here. I think I made the right decision. Thanks, David, for a great article. What a shame: so many of us have been waiting for this.

  • Spencer in Southern Maine

    Said in Blog that MC along with Visa and others would be accespted for payment however, MC was not a choice for payment.

    Must be a Wikileaks problem!

  • John

    Yeah, AndroidPolice is doing a great job staying on top of this. Nice work. Really hope it's not a scam.

  • Jesse

    Prevented me from buying, thanks.

  • Denis St

    As soon as pre-orders started I voiced my concerns and said that this looks like a scam to me, shortly after someone deleted my comment.
    Another issue that you haven't mentioned is that you can literally leave all fields blank while submitting your order and get to step 3 with no warnings.

    PEOPLE, BE SMARTER, WAIT A BIT!

  • level380

    You missed the bit for returns. You have to pay for postage to them and from them via a prepaid bag.

    So you pay postage both ways and a $9 service fee.

  • Badfrog

    Before the policies were removed they had a paragraph about having to provide a SSN/PAN # to activate the tablet. I'm sorry but there is no way I'm providing a company based in India my SSN.

    I also had most of my comments removed when I posted on their blog

    • David Ruddock

      Really? I did not see that one. If you have a screenshot or can find it in your browser cache, send it to tips@androidpolice.com ! We'd be very appreciative.

      • Joe

        Yeah I saw several people commenting on the SSN thing very early on in the process, but then they abruptly changed that (apparently).

      • Badfrog

        They took the pages down and I can't find them in my cache but there were several comments about it on the blog and I had posted a direct quote from their web page but it was deleted

    • Joe

      Yeah I'm surprised (now that I think of it) that my comments haven't been deleted as well. Not that I've gone off and said anything remotely inappropriate, just basically echoing what all of you guys are saying in this blog. (thought I DID just post a link to this story on the blog...that probably ain't gonna go over too well)

      • Gabe

        I will not question any of the points made in the article. I think it was well argued and 100% accurate. As to the comments towards the deletion of messages on the blog, while this may be ultimately the case, I'd encourage you to make sure they aren't just lost in the numerous posts. The amounts of replies to each post on NI's blog has created multiple pages and I thought my posts were getting deleted but then I found the links on the bottom to go to past messages.

    • Mahesh

      And what, may I ask, is wrong with giving your SSN to a company in INDIA?

      Pretty racist of you to say so. Are you suggesting that Indians or Indian companies are not trustworthy? For all you know Indian companies will be handling the entire IT of you friendly neighborhood mega-bank.If there is some consistency in your inflammatory opinions you would be best off storing all your money in a mattress.

      • brad

        Um okay. Give your ssn number to a russian company, japanese company, how about a us company to activate your phone.
        This is not a racist statement. Nobody asks for a SS number except for a bank and there is NO, NONE, ZERO reason to ask for a SS number to activate a device. This is not normal. Banks and money matters that deal with credit ask for SS numbers.

        This is not a typical US business practice.

        Does APPLE, DELL, HP, HTC, or any other company in the USA ask for a ss number to open or activate your device. No. Absolutely not.

      • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

        Are you serious? I'm not giving out my social security to anyone unless they either handle my money or will be employing me directly. A social security number for ordering a tablet? No way in hell.

      • http://www.kenquestrentals.com Kris

        Quit being so damn sensitive. With all the internet banking fraud no one wants to give out their U.S. based social security number to any company in any foreign country. India, Russia, and Africa especially as a lot of fraud originates from there.
        Like everyone else said ... if its not a banking institution, its not getting my SSN.

      • Badfrog

        I won't give my SSN to grocery store down the street. Am I now a "grocist". Don't drop that racist bullshit on me.

    • John

      OMG! That's just ridiculous. Now they need to "borrow" your identity too?

      • Mahesh

        uh oh umm... BS. What about utility companies, rental offices, cellular telephony? WTH, the last time I called Equifax (aka, one of the companies that maintain your credit history) for an issue about my credit records, the call went to an Indian call center. Stop defending your nationalism/racism/exceptionalism or whatever it is that makes you target Indian companies. What sort of an ancient bubble do you live in? Did you miss globalization?

        IMO, Notion Ink wants your SSN so that they can activate the 3G service. Cellular companies always ask for your SSN- that way they know you will be reliable in your payments.

        • Badfrog

          NI is not a 3G service provider in the U.S. They "manufacture" a hardware device in another country. They have no need for my SSN. It has nothing to do with India...it has to do with a foreign company having the requirement for something they don't need to sell me a product

        • PKinUSA

          Seriously man. Give it a rest. And quit the smug condescension it's annoying. People have concerns and they are right to have them. Your vitriolic defense of an an Indian Company just because it's Indian as as racist as the people you're pointing your finger at. Lighten up. If this company wants people's hard earned money then it better be prepared to satisfy the customer's demands in some reasonable way. And if that reasonable way is a better explanation or some reassurance then so be it.

        • Mahesh

          My "vitriolic" attack is not in defense of Notion Ink, rather on the suggestion that somehow the company being Indian makes it less trustworthy. Will you deny that this claim has been made in the past few comments? If there is a reason to complain, it is just that a hardware manufacturer is asking for an SSN without adequate justification. What does the company being Indian have to do with this?

        • Tom

          This obama drone is a liberal freak people, pay attention, he uses politcal terms such as Globalization...which is 100% anti-american.

          Think people can a free people be governed by a DICTATOR? Should we ever even consider such BS? Of course not, only these anti-american jerks like this clown, who hate America, attack American Exceptionalism, aree nothing more than scum bag traitors who live off of the american taxpayer feeling "they deserve" your money more than you do.

          Thjis is scum that should be hung from a tree in the town centers...and not because he is black. this guy could stand to learn what the white man has known for a long time..being a jerk knows no color or race barriers, white people have elected white jerk offs for hundreds of years, and so have AFRICANS elected black jerk offs as well...this guy just happens to be one of them. (place sword back in sheath after licking the idiots blood clean off it)...By the way...IM BLACK jerk off.

      • Mahesh

        My only point is this SSN issue is a flimsy premise to criticize Notion Ink. You give your SSN over phone to the customer representative of credit card company, to the receptionist at the renters office, to the car salesman, to the bank clerk, etc. etc. What's the guarantee that one of them won't steal it? It is trust. And of course, the fact that you know who may be the culprit if your identity is stolen.

        So what else could explain your disdain for giving to an (bona fide) 'Indian company' other than prejudice?

        • Badfrog

          If Notion Ink requires my SSN to activate a piece of hardware then that is not a "flimsy premise to criticize Notion Ink".
          I have no guarantees that any of those people won't steal my identity but they are based in the same country I live in and I have a legal remedy to pursue them. I can't pursue someone in Africa, Japan, England, Scotland, Iran, India, Mexico or Canada very well. I don't give my SSN to any foreign company.
          It seems this requirement is an Indian law and was removed so this is kinda pointless now anyway.

          If Notion Ink was based in Germany and required my SSN I would have the same complaint.

        • PKinUSA

          BTW - "Bona Fide" is a bit of a stretch as well. And unproven company consisting of a half-dozen people with only a handful of renders, policies that seem to change by the minute and a pretty bad payment process to it's name can be described as a lot of things. Bona Fide is not one of them.

        • Side Saddle JimBob

          Get it through your head already! No American would be stupid enough it entrust their SSN directly to ANY foreign entity outside the US. One could say that you are defending NI by using 'racism' as a ruse.

        • http://www.impact-works.com Parv

          Mahesh i am also an indian.. but i see no point in asking SSN.. and moreover why one should give SSN if other asks it on the trustworthy feeling?

          There has to be a valid reason for all this..

      • PKinUSA

        Mahesh, Like it or not, lot's of people have never had the benefit of being world traveled. Added to that the perception of the eastern hemisphere as having a large proportion of scam organizations leads people to be suspicious. In the USA, the SSN is the key to a person's kingdom and hence we are very suspicious of ANY company requesting it. You did know that even US companies are not supposed to ask for or rely on SSNs. They get away with it because our government is pro business and doesn't want to be heaving handed with companies. Regardless, like it or not, the East has perceptions that it needs to overcome for the West. This may seem unfair or racist but again, if you want people's money then that's the way it'll be. Notion Ink may have the best intentions in the world and may end up being the next Dell or Apple HOWEVER, in their first steps towards that goal, they did just about everything they could do in the wrong way. I'm sure they will rectify this and obviously by the fact that they are already selling out of models, people all over the world are willing to take them and not much more than their word. There is absolutely no reason for people to be throwing around the racism card. If this was a US startup making the same mistakes, everyone (including and likely mostly other Americans) would be saying the same things. NI has every opportunity to put this behind them with a superior product and NO MORE unmet promises. It is as simple as that.

        • Badfrog

          I couldn't agree more and I'll be the first in line to buy one when it appears and doesn't require my personal information to activate

  • Joe

    Well done, David! Kudos to you and the rest of the Android Police team for bringing a voice of reason in this Adam insanity. I too very nearly committed to purchasing an Adam...that is, until the last 24-48 hours. In addition to the laughable shipping rate, I've been SHOCKED at the INCREDIBLE lack of BASIC information and unanswered questions (simple ones!) about the product.

    All we’ve been fed have been photoshopped renders of the product, and I’m not dropping $500+ on that basis. As I said, I’ve been following NI’s blog pretty hardcore for a few months now, and I’ve been as excited about it as anyone, but its UNREAL how many people are just drinking the Adam koolaid, forking out the $$ for the product now, and actually having the nerve to call anyone who doubts it “haters” and “naysayers”!

  • Joe

    By the way, David, not only did they take down the original terms/conditions/return policies, they actually changed them; if you go to the pre-order, select any of the versions, then on the name/info entry page, just click next, you'll then see the NEW terms and conditions. I don't see anything anymore about the restocking/repacking fees, BUT I'm just as disturbed by the sudden change in policies RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF PRE-ORDERS.

    • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

      Who's to say that they won't do it again? Which terms and conditions are we bound by then? They treat it like some random text or description of a scarf - this has so many legal holes, it's not even funny.

  • Bastille1789

    You are a God send. How could I even have considered this product with all those inconsistencies. I looked for a review online, and sure enough, each video was several months old and the tablet looked different than what I see on the web site. Thanks David for saving me 500 bucks. You possibly saved my Christmas.

    • Joe

      Yeah I'd been practically screaming at everyone on the blog during the pre-order to wake up, but its crazy, people just don't want to hear anything, and think that NI's CEO is a veritable savior who can do no wrong. Bugs and kinks in a launch (for a startup company) are one thing, but this is an outright debacle that, at least for now, people need to steer clear of.

  • RK

    Oh, fuck. I feel like an idiot now...

    • Badfrog

      Contact your Credit Card company and reverse the charges. You can always buy it in 6-8 weeks if it's not vaporware. You are gonna have a hard time getting your money back 2 months after the fact

  • Anon

    Definitely - just tell your CC company that the purchase is fraudulent, you noticed it when you checked your statement, and they will put a stop on it immediately.

    • Lonford

      Wonder who is the real fraud here?? The person making a bonafide transaction and telling its a fraudulent purchase or the company in question?

  • Steven Karkenny

    Thanks for this article, it pretty much sums up exactly what I have been thinking.

    I REALLY wanted this to good smooth, the Adam has a TON of potential! I was so excited...

    Ugh.

  • Andrew

    These are all very much the same things I thought. I was one of those who had the chance to preorder and certainly one of the first to notice.

    First was the $50 shipping fee. Then reading through the terms (I came to the same conclusion) I saw a 25% return fee, PLUS cost of shipping to them with only 10 days to do it?? The final straw was where it says we're responsible for any duty taxes that may be incurred.
    There's just too much risk here, with a definite loss after ordering. I mean there's a 5% order cancellation fee. I've never seen this before and am not even sure it's legal (spare travel oriented bookings which is understandable).

    • David Ruddock

      It may depend on the state. I know California has pretty strong consumer protection laws regarding fees.

      Generally, it seems legal - you're furnishing consideration which the seller is relying upon in order to fulfill your order, and there's the fee they're paying to the payment site, as well, and likely the penalty they pay if transactions are reversed.

      But as a matter of consumer friendliness, it's obviously pretty dubious.

    • Steven Karkenny

      I agree, I have never seen a company charge you for a DOA product. Notion ink even charges you if you just want a replacement! I don't understand how they think thats ok.

      • David Ruddock

        Notion is writing up their terms under, generally, Indian law - which is very corporation-friendly, and very consumer unfriendly.

        I think the DoA replacement fee may be unconscionable as part of an adhesion contract, as may the new 7 day return period term. I think a plaintiff might have a good argument to say Notion's terms should be moot.

        The fact that their product is coming to the US will open them up to the wonderful world of the American court system, and assuming they actually have a product to deliver, I think the lawsuits may fly over these "terms".

    • brie987

      I wish Newegg was selling this :)

      • PKinUSA

        That might have been a smarter way to open their distribution system. But ultimately, I think the trouble they are having is really due to their desire for universality. There's a good reason few to no other companies have "universal" policies, charges, etc and what we are seeing here (beside growing pains) is it.

  • Badfrog

    I don't have the original page but this was still in my "paste" from when I copied it from their web site.

    “2.Information we collect

    When you visit Notion Ink website or Notion Ink store, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a program at a Notion Ink Retail Store, or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences and credit card information. When you share your content with family and friends using Notion Ink products, send gift certificates and products or invite others to join you on Notion Ink forums, Notion Ink may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. In the U.S. and India, we may ask for your Social Security number (SSN) and PAN number respectively but only in limited circumstances such as when setting up a wireless account and activating your ADAM. ”

    • John

      That's a negative Ghostrider, you will not be taking my SSN just to activate my tablet.

      • Does it matter

        Yes, USA will take my finger prints when I visit USA????

    • http://blog.bengo.us Gabi

      that doesn't sound good :(

    • Jeroen

      wow...
      not touching that with a ten foot pole

    • LoProfile

      Reading the Privacy Policy is precisely what stopped me dead in my tracks! Further down the page (in that version of it) they said they reserved the right to change the Privacy Policies at will, without notice... sell it to third parties....etc. It sounded like yet another spooky Facebookian business model to me.... I have no intentions of selling my soul or divulging my GPS location to own a piece of hardware, no matter how appealing it might look on paper! There was no mention of opting out or even reviewing the data they plan to collect! Clearly it's a moving target, and as the pages appeared and vanished before your eyes, it was all too obvious that the policies really were going to change without notice!

    • fredx

      A little simple research gives the reasoning behind this appearing. The Indian Government Income taxation department has rules about the Indian PAN/SSN being collected and recorded by the provider under several circumstances, including opening a bank account, making purchases over Rs. 25,000 (about US$550), for obtaining a telephone or cellphone connection and other activities. I guess Notion Ink didn't realise this was not the case in the rest of the world.

      • David Ruddock

        Interesting. This sounds like a reasonable explanation for the temporary (No longer present apparently) SSN requirement.

      • John D.

        That's more like it.

        They would have better prepared especially when they were targeting primarily US and Europe!

  • Paul

    Wow. I hope it isn't vaporware. I was considering ordering an Adam in general, but as soon as I saw the 6-8 weeks shipping time I decided against it. Now with all these oddities you've discovered, I do believe I'll wait until actual people have the actual device in hand. I work for a company making a tablet and even though it's not ready for production, we at least have 5 or 6 test units running around with plastics (expensive). So I'm sure they have 'demo' or 'test' units laying around they could have at least snapped a few shots of.

    • David Ruddock

      Paul,

      Yeah, they definitely do have the (likely expensive and overbuilt) test units running around, but they can't prop up those photos as what consumers will purchase.

      Posting the prototype/engineering units would constitute fraud, or at least misleading advertising in the US.

      The Adam may have changed substantially, who knows.

  • Adam (yes really)

    I've been following NI since last year, and was planning on pre-ordering, but today has changed my mind. From my "pre" pre-order link not working, to not seeing any working product. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I want to be sure it's what Rohan has said it will be. I will be waiting to see how this all pans out.

  • Technodo

    What I believe is that Adam is for real, they do have a good tablet out there.
    But the company does yet have a good marketing and PR team.
    They are just a bunch of colllege grads who are good at technology but not at communication.

    I hope they get an experienced staff or else their image is soon going to be tarnished.

  • Michael

    Hello, great article. I was already turned off just for the lack of information, but having seen the stupid T&Cs, I wont be touching this thing until a see a million sales and a million satisfied customers!

    Just a quick comment on one of your points, you said that the pre-order emails were sent as spam, which is a bit misleading. I am involved in sending out education newsletters to about 15000 subscribers. If we try and send all these emails at once, our ISP gets put on a internet blacklist, or the emails all start getting marked as spam, so while I think everything else Notion Ink have done is crapola, I dont have any concerns about their emails being received as spam, probably just a mistake on their behalf.

    Regards,

    Michael.

  • Michael

    Overall, I understand the hesitation and suspicion, but one point needs to be addressed:

    You say it seems "unlikely" that Samsung would be jacking up the price on an unlocked Galaxy Tab, but teardowns have already shown that the Tab has a manufacturing cost of about $215, and they are charging over $600.

    http://www.thegalaxytab.com/2010/11/04/samsung-galaxy-tab-costs-214-57-to-make-less-than-the-ipad/

    So, Notion Ink could very well charge less for a tablet with more features, if they decide to take less profit on each sale. Because, as a startup, they need to find ways to beat the brand recognition of Samsung, HTC and Motorola, and being cheaper with more features is a good way to do that.

    • Jeroen

      manufactoring costs are not the total overhead of course. it's not as simple as price - manufactoring = profit

      • Aaron Gingrich

        Right. I'm willing to bet there were massive development costs on the Tab... it's the first real Android tablet. And as the first, they also have the innovator advantage - they can jack the price up just a little more because there's no real Android competition yet.

  • Steven Karkenny

    Well I a willing to give Notion Ink a second chance, but I will be waiting for a review from engadget or gizmodo (or similar), some user experiences, and a total re do of their warranty/return terms before I even think to give them my money.

  • JuJu

    Great post. It's good to read that others too are very suspicious of NI.
    David, do you have any idea on how much taxes will be (for the US)?

  • brad

    I think this is just a way to raise capital. By the looks of the wording and handling of the legalize of the warranty and returns and such. This company, or maybe I should say, one individual, has no business plan and has NO capital. This is happening in India. A country that has very little in infrastructure to create and export such a product. im not saying it cant happen. But how many products do you know of and buy that is related to electronics and computers come from india.

    • Joe Shmo

      While I agree with you on the suspicion of the preorder and how ... well disorganized to say the least it was. Your other statements are a bit shocking. I was usually under the impression that most people who are tech proficient (enough to know and follow the android scene) are at the very least aware of where their products come from and know enough to be able to make educated statements. You statement "[India] has very ... india." could not be more false. There are a lot of products that come to mind when I think india and computers. Since we seem to love tablets here ... how about the $35 tablet pc from india? or maybe Google having offices and major hiring in India. I'm not saying that you are wrong, its just that trying to generalize the idea that a country probably does not have the ability to do something, when it does, is not a good idea.

      As of Adam, money in wallet till it becomes a good idea/proven some more.

      I think notion released another blog post and eventually its a great idea. Vaporware? ...not exactly. Product? .... nope.

      • brad

        Products do come from india. But how many large established computer makers and or phone makers are from india.

        HTC, MOTOROLA, SAMSUNG, APPLE, BLACKBERRY.... am I missing an indian cell phone maker. DELL, HP, LENOVO, TOSHIBA, etc etc. Did I miss a Indian computer maker.

        Im just saying there are no established indian tablet, computer or cell phone makers. And for a company that is a startup like notion ink, they would be doing everything in there power to make sure that there is no question to there validity.

        Also, $35 tablet is not something I would boast about. Google hiring in india is software related.

        I speak from experience, I know how it is in India.

        • neidanj

          @brad

          you BS know india. Do not TAP DANCE. you have no f....ing idea about india. DO NOT PRETEND THAT YOU ARE A PROPHET AND KNOW IT ALL BEFORE A....LE wanna discuss about adam and its pros /cons then stick to the point.

  • civil

    Just a heads up, though I'm sure someone is watching, Rohan is supposed to be making a post in regards to androidpolice. Personally, his response could be a make or break for NI. If he starts attacking then thats it for me, if he has some explanation(which I'll likely still be skeptical of at this point) it'll shed a better light on the situation at least.

  • Badfrog

    Hello there,

    Bad time to be in flight. Pro-order system crashed several times, though it was not at Notion Ink’s head quarters, but rather than the server side in USA. Being Indian company they predicted more traffic from India and did some optimization which turned out to be complete disaster. On top of it there was an algorithm to smoothen the process of product distribution globally.

    I am collecting all the comments and writing back in sometime. Stay tuned. Seems a lot is still there to discuss and talk about. (Especially the Android Police’s new post)

    Thanks for your patience.

    Warm Regards

    Rohan Shravan

  • http://www.diyprojectorkits.com Mike (Vector66)

    People just don't see it. I followed for months, built a small community if people wanted to join.

    NotionInkTalk.com

    I put alot of time trusting them and this is the quality of a Pre-Release? I understand it is a pre-release, but I even question where is the real product? You cannot sell us something from renders....people are gullable, i work hard for my money and I want this type of product bad but all the community wanted was some videos, web casts something to prove us wrong. If we had that stuff and still had these problems today there would be no negativity just servers crashing. But so many people lost hope.

  • http://me.com/ Scott

    I really disliked this post. Firstly it picked on people not speaking English as a first language.

    There were lots of complaints about restocking fees. This is totally normal. There was some inconsistencies in the amounts maybe, but nothing too strange there.

    The whole article looks like it was finding problems with absolutely anything, and picking on every little thing.

    If the number of items in this post was reduced to real things, not photos missing; short warranty and that stuff that was very subjective, then it would be a useful article. Maybe 1/10th the length.

    Yes you can be nervous about pre-ordering. The purpose of pre-ordering is revenue for a company. It is totally normal, especially in hardware manufacturing. Most people would not consider making such a purchase. And that is right. But those who want to develop with or for a product, or incorporate other business needs, then $500 is nothing.

    This article is right off the mark. It seems to be written by a gadget buyer, who wants to buy the best gadgets, but only after release etc. Fine... wait...

    • civil

      Scott, it is not normal for a company to charge during pre-order. Most(as in NI is the first I've seen to charge before shipping) wait until the product actually ships to charge. Pre-order is more to get an idea of how many will be needed and of what variations.

      The article made one comment on poor language, which is valid considering the T&C can be(if deemed reasonable by a court) a legally binding document.

      The warranties issue is important because it is so muddy and could cause problems down the road. Rohan himself had said photos were important when it came to the chinese knock offs: http://notionink.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/disclaimer/

      I've been a big fan of NI and adam for a while now, had eagerly awaited the family email. The fact is though the T&C left the pre-order ground uneasy for a lot of people, even on the NI blog. This article just says to be careful in the end.

      • http://blog.iangclifton.com Ian G. Clifton

        Thanks for sharing that link; I love the hypocrisy.

    • http://blog.bengo.us Gabi

      How can you purchase a thing without information (video/pictures) ?

      • Mark

        Gabi - Preorder is by its nature a step in the dark, especially from a startup company. How can you buy it without information? There are some grey areas, but the tech specs are published and there is no reason to think that they won't be meeting those specs. I'm not surprised either that NI are charging for the preorder, as this cash injection would calm investors, who I'm sure have already taken a great deal of 'risk' in backing an Indian start-up like NI who are trying to play with the big boys of Samsung and Apple. Indian business culture is totally different to the US, and it doesn't seem that they have a US-focused team handling marketing and legal matters. If they have no US distrubution and marketing base, then they cannot be expected to be providing the same shipping and returns policy as Apple or Samsung.

        As things stand, the Pixel Qi version has already 'sold-out' on preorders, so NI have what they wanted in terms of 'success'. The next couple of months are going to be very rocky though in terms of PR, and it's only when the product finally falls into the hands of reviewers that we'll see if the hardware is going to justify all the rigmarole that goes with 'supporting' an Indian start-up trying to create a global sales base. Personally, I thought the $50 shipping fee was a very innovative move, to equalise global shipping costs.

        I do think AndroidPolice have a duty to provide information to electronics consumers, but, I also think that they are working of an unrealistic set of expectations in doing this. You cannot expect an Indian start-up to offer the same business foundation for US consumers that Apple does. You just cannot. Maybe things will change with time and some success. I have bought defective goods from the US over the internet and been asked to cover return postage, on a 5kg product!! Expensive. In the end, I didn't return.

    • brad

      If a company is a startup, it looks for funding by approaching banks, entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, and investors. It does not take money from individuals wanting or promised a working product that does not exist. Taking money from people by promising a product is called an IPO. Stock exchange to raise capitol. This company has not shown but one working product and only promises a product in 6 to 8 weeks.
      If this was an established company, even if it was from korea, japan, china or singapore, I would be more apt to believing that it would be a actual product. Im very suspicious to this product. There isnt even a video of the product working except on youtube months ago. Where is the working UI that is supposed screen grabs. If this is a working unit, then why not show the working unit in video. This does not make sense whatsoever. Maybe this is how business is done in india. But then again, who can name a computer maker or cell phone maker from india. I cant think of one. This is why Im very suspicious.

    • Jeroen

      If you're going to sell your product internationally you're either going to have to be able to put it into English perfectly or hire people that can, there's really no excuse.

  • http://blogote.com Sidharth

    Detailed (and well written) explanation on the NI tablet. I am not so cool to let go my $500 for a device that doesn't have actual pics, and video demos. It is clear that NI put up the device rather hastily and nothing was planned before hand.

    For now, I'll wait for initial reviews and see how it fares.

  • Joe6Pack

    I have been following this tablet for right at a year now and cant express my dissapointment at the apparent lack of proper business-customer relations. Ordering a product with no actual operating units pictures or any demonstration videos. All from some kids in a third world country that has no proof of any type of a working tablet yet hundred if not thousands have chunked hundreds of dollars down for what amounts to hope. As the saying goes guys "wish in one hand and s### in the other, and see which one fills first." This will probably rank up there with some of the best scams of all time unfolding right before your eyes, don't say you haven't been warned.
    All of this and as of early yesterday morning I was excited about placing my order for the Adam hoping for "THE BIG REVEAL" that for gods sake never materialized, this coupled with the awful ordering system of no capacity choices, no color options (after an entire blog dedicated to that), defects aren't our problem, etc. The list could continue for a thousand more words. I had high hopes but mine and many others opinions of this company have turned 180 degrees, hope they can fight there way out of a potential Armageddon for their poor company. And Rohan I hope that you can turn this around and clean up the mess and get the ball rolling your no doubt a talented guy no matter your intentions, just hope the intentions are to truly deliver a cutting edge device to the masses. Hope everybody reads this thinks for a few seconds and waits out the pre-order till we can see something tangible for our hard earned money.

  • ola

    NI is violating the terms with their (woeful) payment processor in using them for a preorder 2 months off like this.

    http://www.notionaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php/540-Ouch-and-pixel-qi-sold-out

  • Andreu

    In Europe any photo you show of a product are also contractual.
    Not only this, in Europe the warranty covers 2 years, not only 1.
    The law says that in e-commerce I have 7 days to cancel my order without any penalization. More, once I receive my unit I have a period of 7 days to test it and return my unit if I'm not happy with it without any penalization.

    Here, Notion Ink is charging commisions for everything.

    All companies have to produce according the expectation created, but few hours later, PixelQi models are sold out!!!

    • PKinUSA

      I would bet that the first "idea" that Notion Ink drops as a company is universality. It seems that Rohan is very keen on making a truly global product and company but as commendable as his plan is, I don't think the business world is ready for it. I think Notion Ink will be learning very quickly that an idea that looks awesome on paper doesn't always transfer to reality as well. That said, ultimately for me it is about the hardware. If once they actually deliver on the hardware, I think most people will give them time to work out the warranty and distribution problems. I for one hope they succeed. It is tiresome on;ly having large entrenched corporations giving us "their" interpretation of what we should want rather than what we really want. A small company building something that the world is waiting for like the Adam and then delivering on it would be fantastically refreshing by comparison.

      • Mark

        Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head - the product is still going to be the crux of their success. They can iron out the other problems.

  • brad

    Funny how this is sold out and there isnt even a product. And if there was a product, actual product, why wasnt the limit mentioned.

    This is a fly by night company.

  • Crystalball

    You are very right.. this looks nothing like a regular purchase you make on the web of a regular product. But then this is a PRE-ORDER, not a regular purchase order. How many times have you pre-ordered a product from a company? How was that process? Can you compare with that? That would be far more useful. And do not compare with the pre-order of a well established company and say that you order on faith of the previous experience with other products. I feel the point is that normally people do not pre-order, and in this case they are thinking of. That is the problem.

    Sure the company is in its infancy, and the marketing/ordering process does not seem very polished. I would give them the benefit of doubt, but wait optimistically for the reviews from you, slashgear, etc. Engadget has been deliberately finding minor faults and magnifying it. Hope you are different.

    • wathouse

      I (pre) ordered with Pandora (I believe they are a small company like NI; but have videos/pics of their not so innovative product) who is from Germany.

      No news for two months! The price is nearly six hundred dollars with far less capabilities than Adam.

      So NI is doing no worse. I just hope they learn from this experience and become better.

      • Crystalball

        I agree with you.. they should have put out videos of the devices from the first batch of production, even if it is not as polished as the final. What worries me is that if they continue the pre-order approach to their software (not testing it enough before going live), the initial products would be too buggy.

        But I wish they do well as there is no other tablet in the horizon with specs close to adam. I like the openness (atleast partial) of the team and hope they become more professional with time. When you see products with potential and the right overall attitude from the team, you want them to succeed. I will wait for the reviews before purchase though.

  • John

    I don't see how anybody could drop that amount of cash on a product that for all intents-and-purposes doesn't currently exist. I'm holding out hope that NI isn't scamming everyone, they're just being incompetent.

    The fact that they have begun attacking blogs/journalists is not a good sign to me. At the end of the FIAT LUX! blog post, they called Engadget "unprofessional journalism" for pointing out the photoshop-ed differences between the Adam pictures.

    • wathouse

      I agree..it is not worth attacking something one thinks "unprofessional" because then you come down to their low-level (according to your own view). Always, leave out adjectives and address only questions with facts!

  • Himanshu Jain

    wow there are geuine concerns no doubt but I am sick and tired of the third world remarks. So "kids from third world" are somehow inferior than kids from first world. Nobody's forcing you to preorder

    • brad

      India is a third world country. And where do you live. I bet its not india.

      • Darth Vader

        Yeah, Raul. That's right.. So third world that many in US are so grossly un-competitive that even the President so proclaims and exhorts fellow citizens on the threats to intellectual abilities.. or should we say shortcomings...

        For folks like you, step out and smell the roses before you get on that jibe. :-)

  • Ady

    600usd + 24% VAT (~= 750 USD) and just 1 year warranty?

    the minimum legal warranty here in Europe is 2 (TWO) years, as stated in the EU directive 1999/44/EC

    ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/safe_shop/guarantees/index_en.htm

    They can claim 1 year but they'll have plenty of lawsuits, complaints and fines to deal with.

  • Raul

    My suspision is that this is a just a hazardous combination of no-margin-for-error events.
    1> Notion ink set up a counter that had to end in SOMETHING
    2> Mybe the FCC was delayed
    3> The US laws as someone pointed out would gun for NI's throat if they showed images/videos of not-actual-product
    4> In India one has to charge for everything. I am from India and I was simply blown away when I first saw that in the US you can return anything. No questions asked.
    5> NI team is small (and maybe somewhat idealistic).
    6> Ni (rohan in particular) made teh mistake of providing too much OTHER information. A PR / Marketing person would do things a bit different.

    Lets give these guys a break. The product is Good on paper (few people wud debate that).
    The fact that the CEO is responding to concerns and questions is itself a BIG deal (unlike "you are holing it wrong" and "here's a bumper..")

    I personally agree that this was a somewhat of a botched pre-order ....the silver lining is that they may do a better job at the actual release. I think NI has shown that it can learn.

    A FACT maybe a different FACT when looked from the other side..

    Here;s hoping for 'Good intentions' to win

  • brad

    Maybe there was venture capital for design and not for the production.

    Either way. Who can name one, cell phone maker or computer maker from india.

    Im not saying it can happen. But. There are reasons for why there isnt.

    You have to question this.

  • Indian

    As an Indian in the U.S. I am skeptical of pre-ordering as well. What kind of company doesn't put required fields in an order form? I hope that after months of anticipation this isn't a scam, I would feel bad for the people who readily pre-ordered and for showing Indians and India in a bad light.

    • brad

      I agree. I hope this is not a scam. But it is very suspicious. There are so many elements to overcome for a company in india to actually develop and produce such a product.

      And I think buyers need to understand that you do not do preorders on something that does not exist. Or at least I do not buy from a company, that has not been established with any product.

      I have a hard time looking at the notionink website and believing that its an actual working product in 6 weeks.

      Why isnt there video showing the working model with the beta UI at least.

      Its nothing. Just simple photoshop images.

      • Indian

        We will just have to wait and see, maybe tomorrow Mr. Shravan can explain to us what exactly is going on in better detail than he keeps telling us about Adam's features and gives us rendered photos.

  • Darth Vader

    Yet another case of poisonous blogging by android police.

    Best Buy has a similar policy of restocking fees - Ref - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Help-Topics/In-Store-Return-Policy/pcmcat204400050028.c?id=pcmcat204400050028

    Market leader has a similar policy on Ipads as well. - http://store.apple.com/us/help/returns_refund

    Perhaps, the author should get more educated on matters before publishing such crap. So what if it is from a non-US country. As long as facility exists to return, repair and redress, use it. Stop cribbing endlessly and trying to tun down a new product where it is not warranted.

    Besides, the author should know that this product heavily promotes the use of Android.

    Read before you write,

    • Indian

      look the fees are just one aspect of a whole lot of things that seem wrong with pre-ordering at the moment. The main problem is that we have no real proof of production Adam in front of us. If this is a scam (I hope not) then its sheds bad light on Android and Pixel Qi. 'heavily promotes the use'? seriously anti-smoking ads heavily promotes cigarettes but not in the way cigarette makers want them too.

      Think before you write,

      • Does it matter

        Look at Pixel-Qi blog saying that they are in partnership with NI.

    • brad

      You cannot call this a product. Its not a product. There is one demo model that was shown. This is a preorder for the hopes that the product will be produced.

      And for the APPLE policy. That pertains to christmas items only with deep discounts.

      Items purchased at the Apple Online Store between October 30, 2010 and December 25, 2010, may be returned through January 8, 2011. Please note that all other terms and conditions provided in the Apple Online Store Sales and Refunds Policy are still applicable with respect to such items purchased, including the assessment of a 10% restocking fee on any open box item.

    • civil

      Think the bigger point to the restocking fees was:
      A) Inconsistently described % throughout the policy.
      B) Inconsistently described return time tables.
      C) Return fees even on defective units.
      D) Custom duties, etc will be paid by customer that is 0-100% of invoice value.

      Not the fact that there were restocking fees at all.

  • Himanshu Jain

    Also little bit of logic will help to clear doubts on this being a scam. If somebody wants to loot you in minimum possible time and disappear, they wont put a sold out board against the highest price items

    • brad

      That depends. There are many ways to maintain the illusion that its business as usual. There still has been no explanation to why this was stated in the beginning. Why wasnt it mentioned that there was a limited run.

      • Himanshu Jain

        Go check out, of course it was mentioned that it is limited in the blog. My point is simply being that there is no need to be vicious. There are some grave concerns about the way things have unfolded and I think the pre ordering is fundamentaly different than normal selling of the product. You pre order only if you believe thats it

        • brad

          Not everyone that was going to order, runs to a blog and reads the blog. It should be posted where the consumer may see it clearly.

          Clearly, no legal team was involved. Again, proving that this is a loosely ran program with a few designers and planners.

          If I see a running product. Fully running.

          And someone in the press has been able to test it, a consumer receives it, then and only then will I believe that this is a actual product.

          You go to venture capitalist and investors and produce a business plan and demo product that will generate the capital need to design, and produce a product.

          Notion Ink hasnt proved that

    • Indian

      More than likely its not a scam, but charging without an actual product already shipped or present is not the best business policy.

  • Sidehatch

    Im not worried because I didn't drop any "cash" just plastic...my Amex Platinum Card has so many protections I am covered. Oh and I'm looking forward to the Pixel QI screen if it ever shows up. The specs on this thing if legit are outstanding.

  • brad

    He posted a response to AndroidPolice.
    And Im impressed, but not convinced.

    • Indian

      Dec. 18 is the magical date!

      Mark your calendars!

  • iosink

    Months and months of waiting for the Adam... and I ended up with an iPad.

    I'll give notion ink 90 days (my return period) to prove the Adam isn't a giant disaster.

    • John D.

      It's better than 10 days!

  • Beth

    Yeah, I've been following the Adam since CES last year, and I've been a big supporter of this product - but this pre-order hype/rollout has been an *unmitigated disaster*! It seems like it could not have been more unprofessionally done from the get-go. God-bless the people with enough courage to pre-order, but there is no way in hell I'm gonna buy this until it's in my local Best Buy. Not only are there no current pictures or heaven forbid video, you don't even know how many gb of internal storage it has when you pre-order it! All these things that seem like common sense disclosures are the things that NI is completely mucking up. The whole thing just seems oddly unplanned and mismanaged. I'm not as cynical as the people saying it's an outright scam, I'm just surprised at how incompetent this company seems/is.
    I was really thinking about this as a Christmas present, but I think I'll just get an iPad (flawed as it is) to last me a year until this (or perhaps more likely) another android tablet comes out that has everything I'm looking for. Bash the ipad all you want - god knows I have - but at least you can walk into a store you know, or go to a reliable professional website and not have to worry about any of the crazy bs stated in this article. Say what you want, but peace of mind goes a long way.
    Good luck Notion Ink, but it's going to be hard to come back from this kind of debacle.
    *And no - I'm not just a hater or a rabid apple fan-person (far from it) - I was very optimistic and totally set on buying one of these as of a few weeks ago.

  • brad

    Ok so he says Dec 18th there will be a video of a working version.

  • Frederic Ducros

    +1

    Rohan is now sending sneaky messages "I would be spending rest of the day in reading through your comments and understanding how exactly you want us to DEVIATE from industry standards."

    We do not want him to DEVIATE. We want him to comply with industry standards.

    $50 shipment + 5% service fee for a 6-8 weeks delivery is NOT industry standard.

    Thanks for keeping Rohan in check.

  • brad

    Totally agree.

    Dont deviate, plan better PR. Plan better reveals. This was a fiasco.

  • CJ

    Nobody is guessing or asking about a bonus secret feature anymore, LoL.
    That's a shame, a young startup should have known better how to really STARTUP, unless of course everything is as it was planned for from the beginning, i.e. revenue gathered in fees will work out pretty well for NI, they don't even have to show a product :) Another bubble is about to burst ...

  • jeremee

    FUCK NOTION (ST)INK!

    what a fucken smelly motherfucker!

    • Pete

      What a helpful, eloquent reply.

  • WAit, What?

    December 18th? A week of leaving everyone hanging? Good god man, that's way too late! The Notion Ink name will be toast by then, dragged through town, strung up by it's feet and flogged within an inch of it's life. A week is forever in this industry. Steven bloody Spielberg himself couldn't create a video that would save them if they wait that long. *facepalm*

    • Ak

      'Steven bloody Spielberg .....' Awesome! lol ..

  • Mr X (Some ppl…)

    I just can't believe some people...

    First of all, don't complain that you weren't able to pre order the product, because the servers crashed. It happens to many companies that aren't used to handle that kind of traffic.

    And anyway, why do you complain that there aren't any "hands on" material of the device even tough you can pre order the device? There are many cases like this. And can't you just wait a week ffs? I have followed Adam from the start with great interest and await the 18th hands on video eagerly, but I'm not in a great hurry to get the device. I'm sure there will be enough for everyone and even if you have to wait a few months the Adam will most surely still be the top tablet on the market.

    You people sound like pampered fanatics, give it a rest will you.

    • John

      Pot meet kettle? :)

  • Fletcher91

    I found it very odd that nearly any of the fields are check for validity (e.g. the address field can be empty!)

  • Mr X (yeah right)

    Ask yourself, does apple show video and photos of products in beta phase?

    Sure they almost always deliver, but then again, they are a company that's based on a good pr...

    • brad

      No they dont. But when they release a product, its there in the hands of steve jobs showing it working and operating.

      • Android Boi

        You forgot to mention, the press also gets to play with it , briefly , later in the day

  • Badfrog

    I would hope that anyone who wants an alternative to the IPad would want a device like the NI. On paper it will run circles around the IPad. The problem is that is it on paper. It's been photoshopped. There are no videos or reviews from anyone who has seen this device. I hope that in January that all the people who pre ordered will receive what they have been promised. But to blindly give someone $600 and not be certain that will be the total cost (import fees added later) for a product that doesn't exist seems foolish. I would love to have one but not until someone outside NI has seen and reviewed it

  • brad

    Funny,
    The Comments I made on Notion Ink website questioning the validity of the company and its owners has been deleted.
    I simply questioned why a company would do preorders to raise capitol to fund the production and why arent they approaching investors and venture capitalist for funding.
    All of that was deleted from the notion ink blog.

  • rahivat

    David,

    You just are not competent enough to comment on something you can never build.

    • brad

      Neither is NI. They arent competent enough to have a proper release.

      • rahi aravat

        That does not prove it is a scam.

        Also, NI did not comment on someone else's release! They build tablets. They don't find faults and make a fuss about some product which they did not build!

        Reporters are neccesary. But,I don't understand enjoying limelight on some startup company's mistakes!

        Even Goliaths like Apple had release issues - like the famed antenna issue. But, we trust Apple as we know them. We don't know Notion Ink. If you are skeptical, go and buy Ipad. Why kill a new venture with a lot of pessimism?

        • brad

          At least apple had a real hold in your hand product that was sold to the masses on the day of its release. Apple does not and has not done preorders on beta equipment.

          If its not tangible and in your hand on the shelf for someone to touch use and buy, then its nothing.

          So dont compare apple, dell, HP or anyone to the poor management of NI.

          They are not even on the same level and at this rate, they wont be.

    • Badfrog

      David is just posting and commenting directly from NI. NI are the ones that keep posting information and then taking down and then acting like blog sites like this are at fault.

    • John D.

      Nice one, you want to get rid of all bloggers and journalists on earth?

  • Eggcake

    Yesterday I was not sure (I defenitely wasn't going to preorder, I'm not that ...well yes, let's call it stupid!).

    But now I am really 100% sure this is a scam.

    • brad

      You know, I was going to give NI a little leeway here, but to be honest. Why does it take 8 days to have a video put up of a supposedly working unit.

      • Badfrog

        Because they now have to put together something and they decided a week was how long it would take to hide the duct tape and bad soldier joints

      • Eggcake

        Exactly, I'm asking myself the same thing.

        Strange policies is one thing, but why in the hell is it so difficult to show us some VIDEOS of the real deal?

        When Rohan created the YT-Channel yesterday (granted it's not fake) I expected a friendly video where he explains everything. But seriously, over a week to create a video?
        If it's real, I just don't understand what they expected. Applause for empty words?

  • brad

    LOL. Nice.
    I believe they have a working model. But its still running stock android.

    • Badfrog

      I'm sure they have a working model if this whole thing isn't a scam but I suspect it doesn't run nearly as well as they are leading people to believe. I've already had a few of the android tablets and even when hacked they where still laggy.

  • John

    Thumbs up for this post.

    Frankly NI reminds me about those Chinese stores that sell everything in pre-orders that take months to arrive (if at all), poor or no warranty, support of any kind.

  • http://suhastech.com/ sush

    AndroidPolice.... Apt name I must say..

    *still believes in NI*

    • lalit modi

      sush Hindustani?
      god bless you!

  • lalit modi

    (NEW POPULAR POEM)

    Rohan rohan!

    yes papa!

    counting money?

    no papa!

    cleared fcc?

    no papa!

    fooling peoples?

    no papa

    where is the ADAM?

    HA HA HA.!

    • rahi aravat

      I really enjoyed this poem! Ha ha ha

  • Kokopelli

    I do not think that the Adam is a scam; It is too public and too easily traceable to be a scam in my opinion. That said I question some of the decisions made to date.

    Relying on FCC approval after preorders have started is a bit bold. I believe that the FCC approval ID has to be printed on the device (it may be sufficient to print it in the supporting materials). Are they holding production run until approval?

    Additionally the shifting terms and conditions speaks of a proper sales and legal staff for the company. Even if it is a startup, given the scope and scale of what they are trying to achieve Notion Ink needs to consider what they promise (from a legal standpoint) and how they present to the consumer.

    Personally I would still order one. I tried but got stuck when the cc processing company failed. Looking at it again this morning the model I wanted is sold out. Time will tell I guess.

  • lalit modi

    @kokopelli
    i know its not a scam, but have you read 'commets' section on Ni blog? It tells a lot.
    If u r fan of adam then tell NI to post atleast one latest pic of final adam.

  • Lars

    All the links to the boilerplate legal stuff has been removed from their webpages.

  • Amar

    It is a startup company by young set of people. Glitches bound to happen for any startup company. Even Steve Job experienced near bankruptcy and bounced back very well.

    Let us not forget 20 years old organization having major issues in their products and 150 years old organizations become vapor one day.

    If you don’t want to spend your precious $500 plus, pls keep it with you.

    If NI wanted to loot money, they need not close the ordering process and announce that they are sold out; if it is a real gimmick they must reopen it again pretty quickly. Let us wait and see.

    • Android Boi

      @Amar

      Apple actually sold quite a few computers, and Steve was worth millions, before he got fired from Apple.

      Can you say that about Notion Ink.

      Step into reality my friend.

      • Amar

        I am not really worried how much Rohan worth now. But if informed buyers (Pre-Order) are not aware of this fact which is not unique to NI they are better stay away from Pre-Ordering products from start-ups.
        It is easy to write-off a startup company since they have no history but it takes lot of courage to stand up and support new entrants in the market. Even an established organizations without support from the market can easily vanish from the thick sky and we customers may not get an opportunity to see good and competitive products (Price, Features, Support, Services)
        I don't think Notion Ink can afford to loiter in the market for 20 years creating a legacy before launching a product. They are also probably facing difficulties funding their operations, though as a customer you may say I am least bothered, it is difficult for NI to ignore and pretend like Apple!!

        • Android Boi

          Again,

          If you trust them so much pre-order as much as you can.

          start ups have to build our trust not the other way around

  • Mr X (Oh, the Stupidy)

    You people remind me of an angry, unreasoned mob and you make me sad.

    First of all:
    There are real pictures on the blog which are not photoshopped and there is a video showing adam running HD video too. So shut up about the vaporware, if you don't even bother to read the blog. There are even interviews with Shravan showing the early prototype of the device.

    Secondly:
    This is a very new startup company with no experience from the market and are from a different culture. You expect them to do release as smooth as big international companies with tens of years of experience (who also screw things up).

    Thirdly:
    If Steve Jobs want's to show off the iPad for the first time, do you think he spends a day or two to make the video? Do you think it's wise to make the first appearance of the device without a good planning. Would you shoot a homevideowalktrough if it was your product?

    Yes, they may have launched the pre order before they were ready for it, but think of the pressure YOU people were putting on NI for the release before the holidays. They wanted to get something out and fast, because you are so damn impatient. This all is partly your fault.

    • John

      - Have you ever pre-ordered a product that has not even been approved?
      - Have you ever ordered a product that does not even have a picture showing what you actually get?
      - Have you actually watched at iPad event? I thought Steve Jobs showed off the final product before announcing the preorder date.

      - Do you have a name?

      • Mr X (John Smith?)

        - No, because I'm not an idiot.
        - No again, because I'm not an idiot.
        - And I tough Steve Jobs was man who masters the hype, PR and has "some" experience? My comment was directed at ppl who say:"how hard it is to just shoot 'some' video of the device and os". And did you even read the last part of my comment.
        - Do you have a REAL name?

        • John

          Yes I did read the last past of your comment. I initially thought that Notion Ink programmed the pre-order now because they wanted to sell before Christmas. Blaming consumers', or maybe the market's, pressure is not the answer IMHO.

          John is my name, so 'Oh, the Stupidy' is yours? But maybe I won't post my personal information, or my SSN here, or even give it to Notion Ink! :-) cf. previous comments.

        • John

          By the way, good answers for the first 2 questions.

        • Mr X (SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx)

          NotionInk hasn't blamed the consumers, I have. There is no question that NI made some serious mistakes and gave over to the pressure. I'm sure that lesson was learned.

          But you really have to be blind twat to order a product without seeing it first and then complaining about the process. Nobody will put a gun next to your head and say: "Buy the freaking tab or die!" So you are skeptical => wait till the product lands in your closest Best Buy. Was that so hard?

        • John D.

          - cf. last comments on SSN
          - Yeah, I'm skeptical and reasonable I think, also patient enough like most people to wait until it is actually in a retail store and/or after reading review on engadget, cnet, etc ...

        • John D.

          Btw, stop playing with the 'name' field. That's kinda ridiculous.

        • Mr X (No you stop playing with it!)

          Yes, you are. But most ppl just rage, shout "vaporware" and stomp their feet, just because they didn't get their new toy when and how they wanted it.

          I think it should be taken for granted that you don't pre order anything from a new company in India, which hasn't really shown the final product. I mean, how stupid can some people be?

          This launch was handled very badly, but IMHO NI (or Rohan) doesn't deserve these kind of accusations.

        • John D.

          - I am not judging anybody stupid. Everyone can have their own choice.
          - Yes, I don't preoder almost anything, not from someone across the ocean that I don't have an easy hold on to, and not for a something I don't even have a photo of the final product, not for..., uh, please reread the David's post.
          - We obviously are not going anywhere with this conversation and just wasting our time and diverge others' attention.
          Good thing is, here they don't delete comments as does some other blog. :-)
          So long,

        • Mr X (So long, John Doe!)

          - I am. And some choices just are.
          - Me neither. Did I need reread the article to know it, no. If somebody does, well, read my first answer.
          - Yeah, I never expected it to go anywhere, but I do love to argue ;)

    • Joe

      Well then by your reasoning with the Steve Jobs example (which I completely agree with), if you haven't ample time to debut the product, then here's an idea: WAIT! That's what blows me away, they seemed to rush straight to pre-order without getting any real prioritization (i.e., getting proper videos/photos ready, and providing info that will answer ALL questions that prospective buyers might have). This isn't rocket science, I mean anyone could have told them that if they looked at the state of NI's planning a few days ago, that NI simply wasn't even close to being ready for a legitimate pre-sale.

    • jeremee

      Mr X (Rohan)

      You are a smelly slumdog!!

  • lalit modi

    so what! its not our corcern. We are not a NI share holders (AS FAR AS I KNOW THEY NOT EVEN REGISTERED)
    . We are buyers. In retail sector buyer is king.
    If rohan was not prepared for situation, then why he is collecting money.
    I wanna asure you, NI dont have any financial,industrial,political,moral,ethical support in india. ROHANs priority also europe and us.

    • Mr X (John)

      Hmmm... where is the google translate selection: from gibberish to english?

      • lalit modi

        he he! Tht was little messy. Adams hangover?

  • lalit modi

    so what! its not our corcern. We are not a NI share holders (AS FAR AS I KNOW THEY NOT EVEN REGISTERED)
    . We are buyers. In retail sector buyer is king.
    If rohan was not prepared for situation, then why he is collecting money.
    I wanna asure you, NI dont have any financial,industrial,political,moral,ethical support in india. ROHANs priority also europe and us...

  • lalit modi

    @AMAR @OH THE STUPID

    so what! its not our corcern. We are not a NI share holders (AS FAR AS I KNOW THEY NOT EVEN REGISTERED)
    . We are buyers. In retail sector buyer is king.
    If rohan was not prepared for situation, then why he is collecting money.
    I wanna asure you, NI dont have any financial,industrial,political,moral,ethical support in india. ROHANs priority also europe and us.
    @pics and videos
    Those are photoshoped pics.
    Those videos on utube are 4&12 mont old, we want latest final real thingy.

  • Ullman

    Unbelievable.

    If it's a scam, this would make a great Harvard Business Review study on how to gain trust and take money from complete strangers (tip: make 'em feel like family).

    If it's not a scam, this would make a great Harvard Business Review study on how NOT to do business (tip: invest in product marketing, product management, and fulfillment).

  • Mr X (That would be a)

    Touché

    If this was a scam it would be the most longterm, patient and laborious shenanigan I have ever seen.

    And if this is not, well, you said it best.

    • Android Boi

      wrong again.

      Madoff fooled people foe 20+ years and made millions. this is amateur stuff.

  • Mr X (Check it!)

    For all you doubters and haters:

    http://notionink.wordpress.com/2010/10/30/week-end-special-part-vi/

    And if u say "it could have been any device playing the video" watch it till the end.

    • Joe6Pack

      Sure its the Adam "Prototype" still not proof of GUI or current state of functionality. Nothing in this video proves anything about the Adam other than Rohan has a cool prototype than can play an "Inception" trailer.

  • Joe

    What's also really bugging me is that Rohan has YET to give a straightforward answer to the question of whether or not Adam will include Android Market access. Its a simple YES or NO question...and a big one actually, because it could be swaying point for prospective buyers. After all, the biggest part of the Android experience are the apps.

  • Darkseider

    Social Security Number?! S C A M! Seriously there is NO retailer on the planet that asks for your SSN when ordering a product online with a credit card. This is a scam from go and if you are stupid enough to give up your address, credit card info, phone number AND social security number you deserve all the hell that goes along with identity theft.

  • Sidehatch

    I wonder how many children would be in here crying and stomping their feet if the preorder email actually got to everyone and they didn't sell out.

    • George D

      Thats what it sounds like to me also. NI has some issues but they should keep their money in their pockets and stop sweating the little things and give them a chance to right this before going crazy. Its been less than 24 hours people!

  • earthzero

    This was obviously a botched attempt to try and get some sort of product into the hands of fans who have been supportive of Notion Ink as early as possible. There were obviously problems, but it is absolutely irresponsible to call the process a "scam" or allow that to be promoted as the general direction of this endeavor here on your site.

    I've been critical of Notion Ink's current attempt at a pre-order as can clearly be seen by my postings on their site, but I have never suggested (or encouraged others to suggest) that Notion Ink's CEO--a person who has given numerous interviews and spoken at several events--is just a scam artist is out to steal a few people's money (and identities, seriously?). That is what is going on in the commentary here and I think that it is high time that the moderators step in to clarify this. I understand that people are both confused and disappointed, but let's try not go too far...

  • Badfrog

    Chances are this is a real product but was forced into pre-sale for financial reasons. Hopefully they will get enough money to finish production and ship it now. But the screwy way they kept changing the return and sales policy was what started this blog in the first place.

    Under their current sales and warranty policy I won't purchase one anyway. And before it was taken down they clearly stated that a SSN/PAN was going to be required to activate the wireless and the tablet.

  • Androidboy

    This Joker Rohan (Notion Ink), is not even listed in the 2011 CES directory.

    http://www.cesweb.org/exhibitors/cesSmartBooth/default.asp

    Where is waldo?

    • Badfrog

      Oops....had to edit...didn't see the year

    • http://www.slipshft.com Slipshft

      I just looked for the same thing, so Waldo isn't in the building.

  • why

    Some people here keep talking about they never had to give out SSN to any retailer really ?

    a) What about when getting a new cell phone contract ? How can you get it without giving SSN ?

    b) Any internet service like say FIOS,You cannot have it without giving your SSN.

    NI asked for SSN incase they have to setup a 3G account for you, these details are asked by countries for security purposes primarily not NI to take over your stupid identity.
    Try getting the above services without giving your SSN.

    • Badfrog

      I have only supplied my SSN for the purpose of checking my credit to obtain a cellular service contract. I have never given my SSN to a retailer to activate a piece of hardware. Nor have I given my SSN to an internet service provider.

      I was also unaware that NI was a 3g cellular provider in the U.S. nor that they were a country that needed my SSN for security purposes.

    • ola

      It is illegal for companies like NI, Verizon, AT&T to demand a SSN, even for credit checking and such. The person working a kiosk, or minimum wage telehelp might not know this, and may insist to the contrary and they (or you if you insist as well) are wrong.

      Only some governmental functions have a right to demand SSN. NI sure as hell doesn't "need it to activate a tablet PC".

  • Sir Robin

    I have every intention of buying an Adam, which I do believe is real.
    I hope/believe many of the discrepancies are simply differences in languages and business practices in different countries.

    However, I will be waiting until it gets rooted and there is a Nandroid type backup available so I can try different UI's/ROMs and there must be full access to Market.
    So I will probably be waiting a while, too bad since I want this yesterday.

  • brad

    David

    Confirm this.

    If there is going to be a big unveiling of the ADAM at the CES. Then why isnt Notion Ink listed anywhere on the CES website.

    • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

      I added this bit to the post. Thanks to everyone who brought this to light.

  • John D.

    Interesting statistics: There are about 10 comments in total having a title in the author field: e.g 'why', 'Some ppl', 'yeah right', 'Oh, the Stupidy', 'Check it!' etc...

    Almost all of theses comments defend in vain NI. If you are the same person, please use 1 name, that makes us easier to follow.

    • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

      Confirmed, all of them are coming from the same IP from Finland. I've now renamed them all Mr X.

  • Android Boi

    Scammers they start young don't they.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PstVDlK2lGA

  • http://www.kenquestrentals.com Kris

    Why wait for a pre-order when you can buy it right here:

    http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/112960154/Notion_Ink_Adam_Variant_A_32GB.html

    LOL ... seriously though ... why is it listed on there?

  • Android Boi

    Android Police,

    Can you follow up on this. I don't think they even submitted the product to the FCC. They basically have a gurantee id 'Y2G' , which anyone can register for.

    At this point its a bit optimistic but lets see them give hard proof of

    1.)Submissions to FCC/ or Accredited Testing firm
    2.)Correspondence to FCC/ or Accredited Testing firm

    I like to seem them fidget out of this.

  • lord of s/w

    this is NOT a scam.
    1.They lack on finance to start production.
    2.They dont have partner because they dont want to share profit.
    3.rohan fears that competition will copy them thats why they are not sharing pics and videos.
    4.rohan is a BTECH mechanical engg from IIT INDIA. (Google IIT india.)
    THESE ARE MY personnel view points, please dont make your buying decision behalf my comment.
    But i still think, very poor managemet from rohan.
    Boy, hire a professional guys, you are not an a all-rounder.
    My suggestion for buyers is wait and watch.

    • brad

      SCAM =

      A confidence trick or confidence game (also known as a bunko, con, flim flam, gaffle, grift, hustle, scam, scheme, swindle or bamboozle) is an attempt to defraud a person or group by gaining their confidence. The victim is known as the mark, the trickster is called a confidence man, con man, confidence trickster, grifter, or con artist, and any accomplices are known as shills. Confidence men or women exploit characteristics of the human psyche such as greed, both dishonesty and honesty, vanity, compassion, credulity, irresponsibility, and naïveté.

    • Side Saddle JimBob

      "this is NOT a scam."

      What walks like a duck, quacks like a duck?

      "1.They lack on finance to start production."

      Ever so the reason everyone should be concerned. One is a fool to to part their money for vaporware!

      "2.They dont have partner because they dont want to share profit."

      Sucks to be them, eh?

      "3.rohan fears that competition will copy them thats why they are not sharing pics and videos."

      Gonna happen anyway... That's if it ever shows up.

      "4.rohan is a BTECH mechanical engg from IIT INDIA. (Google IIT india.)"

      And Pres. Obama was a community activist. Don't you know that engineers/scientists make poor businessmen? :P

      "But i still think, very poor managemet from rohan. Boy, hire a professional guys, you are not an a all-rounder."

      Yesiree bobcat tail! Ya hit da nail on da head with that one! :)

    • Rich

      I don't think it's finance. I think Rohan pushed to do a small pre-release while most of production is scheduled to begin in the new year.

  • poisons

    Notion Ink was not listed neither on the CES 2010 exhibitor, while we know they were there. Maybe a different name, even for CES 2011?

    Page 18:
    http://www.acesuppliers.com/tradeshow/expo/Exhibitor_All.aspx?ExpoName=2010ces

    • brad

      Being there in 2010 and trying establish themselves is one thing. They could of been sharing a booth under a different name or with another vendor.

      After establishing themselves at the CES 2010, they would have generated and prepared funds and funding to have a booth under the name Notion Ink or Rohan.

      I think there is some wishful thinking on alot of those who have wished for a gadget that is spec'd out like this one.

      And its a way to confirm to yourself that you didnt make a bad investment.

      • poisons

        Ok, I understand your thoughts. Maybe this Ces affair would not have hitted our imagination negatively if it would be the only negative issue about notion ink.
        But with all these problems is natural that every single tiny thing appear as a giant.
        At this point even if the product would result as a real one, Notion Ink has lost anyway.

        But Anyway, Someone know under what name Notion Ink was present at CES 2010?

      • Rich

        Here we go, spreading the false assumptions and passing them as fact. I really dislike people like you.

        Small companies very often cling to larger company booths. Especially in the case of NVIDIA, where they have a huge amount invested in the success of the tablet Tegra2 card. NVIDIA gets to make sure NotionInk gets the proper exposure so their graphics card gobbles up the market and NotionInk gets exposure so their product sells. It makes perfect sense once you get out of your bomb shelter screaming "fraud" and open your mind to all possibilities.

        • Android Boi

          @Rich

          You have no proof that NI were officially under the Nvidia both. All the videos point to Rohan going (maybe with other people) to CES 2010 and demo the Adam.

          There is some mention of Notion Ink as a partner with Pixel Qi.

          http://pixelqi.com/blog1/2010/09/17/pixel-qi-tablet-availability-diy-screen-success-and-other-updates/

          As of now we know at the 2011 CES NI , doesn't have a both. That doesn't mean they can't go. It sounds little strange to do unveil a product that can make or break your company and not official register for a booth. Now they have traction in terms of customer demand, so it makes no sense at all, it might have at the 2010 CES when no one heard of them.

          What the mystery is all the little shady actions they have done LATELY. It just reeks. Maybe they are not a total scam.

          Until we can figure out what they actually have, which will be soon. I wouldn't trust them. Remember your the consumer, they have to prove they are worth it to you.

  • your mother

    latest !!!! wikileaks: notion ink is a scam.

  • Eggcake

    Mh, why is the PixelQi sold out? I mean...if it's a scam, that's a pretty bad idea - I think pretty much everyone would like to order a PixelQi version.

    There's just this little hope, that it isn't a scam...but it's REALLY little.

  • brad

    Rohan is a realm in J. R. R. Tolkien's fantasy era of Middle-earth.

    Could adam just be a fantasy.

  • Karthik

    Though not very pleased with the way they have handled the PR and compliance to deadlines, I am pretty sure they are a legit company. NI was covered on freakin' national television here in India!

    • Android Boi

      I would be weary of India Media...Or even media here in the US. A good con man can con all.

      The ball is on NI to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they are for real and all these things are bad f*ck ups.

      Even if they are bad f*ck ups, you have to question how they could do it this badly and then have the brain power to design a world class tablet.

    • brad

      A diamond could be a cubic zirconia if you didnt know how to look for a real diamond.

  • http://www.christiantechsaz.com/ Aaron

    I am thinking about this device, but the fact of a shipping charge of $50+ has me thinking locally. Going to look at the Viewsonic tablet benchmarks article...

  • John J

    The question becomes, after all this mess, if this turns out to be an actual product (and not just 1 more week vaporware), do you really trust this company to provide any level of meaningful support for the product?

    • Rich

      That should be a one of many standard questions asked when you think of buying from a new company.

      Even Google with the Nexus One made a lot of people wonder.

      • Android Boi

        At least I got the Nexus One in my hands. We have not even seen videos of a production ready device with the software they promised.

  • ghoulish

    wow perusing through the comments, i cannot believe how everyone is duped by a product with no actual real screenshot or any working hands on demo at all.
    Guys, get over it, the entire NI: ADAM is VAPORWARE! its not real! its all a hoax! lets not kid ourselves here.
    everyone needs to face reality. sorry to those who followed this mythical device from the beginning but the party is over.

    btw, if this does turn out to be a real product. its going to be horrendously bad. all those UI overlay shots over android 2.2, just screams fake.

    • gnomunculus

      But they are Pixel Qi customers (according to the Pixel Qi blog anyway), and maybe Nvidia's as well, which I interpret to mean that they've bought a ton of screens and processors (unless the Pixel Qi folks are being conned as well).

      Still, agreed that the software looks like a bag of lies from this side, kind of like those console knock-offs that can only play a couple of games, only this one is built on a really powerful platform, mostly unused. A risky experiment on innovation that got out of hand the minute they/he decided to hide its limitations.

  • imno007

    Heh, for all those going on about how they wouldn't hand their Social Security numbers to just anyone, if I'm not mistaken the new IRS laws coming into effect next year to pay for ObamaCare will require all businesses to get a SS# or taxpayer identification number for all transactions totaling more than $600. :(

  • Mark

    CES might be a 'trade event', but for a start up like Notion Ink, it's a platform for a global launch, because of the cover and excitement CES generates. Come on, David, give them a break!

  • Ken

    I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab so could'nt care less but one thing is certain this fiasco is doing no good the credibility of notion ink and hence potential buyers.

  • http://justanytime.blogspot.com vikram

    The more the discussion about Notion Ink Adam....the better it is for them.... It's after long time ...someone has come up with an original product....which is quite tough for u guys to accept....isn't it? so carry on....self appointed POLICE ....haha :D

    • Android Boi

      How is it original? What technology have they invented. Please enlighten us.

      • http://justanytime.blogspot.com vikram

        Its not just an extension of a smartphone to a tablet....the design, specs, applications, swirl camera, pricing are totally new....just check out their features page.....do some analysis with other Tablets ... dont just look for easy explanations all the time ;)

    • brad

      Well, if you do a google search. There are quite a few other websites that are questioning the validity of Notion Ink.

      • Side Saddle JimBob

        Hey all! I just came back from lunch. I "drove" the Delorean to 03/06/2011.. A DHL box was on my front porch! I was happy to know when I lifted up the package, it had some heft to it. WHEW, no empty box I thought! However, upon opening it, out came a book "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Frauds, Scams, and Cons" ... WTF I blew my lunch and kungfued the cat!!! I wanted a tablet, not a book!!!

    • ghoulish

      you mean an original SCAM product? why are you even defending these crooks?

      If I were Indian, I'd be ashamed, not defending.

    • John J

      I would also like to know where the innovation is? It's just a tablet with good hardware and a custom UI.

      Is the UI innovative? Who knows, we've never actually seen it in action.

      Is there something innovative about the combination of hardware? Excluding the swivel camera, it's just a grouping of high-quality hardware in a tablet configuration that we've already seen before in the iPad and Galaxy.

      • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

        Actually, the real innovation in the Adam is the Pixel Qi display technology, which is simply brilliant, if it actually works. Whether it does or not cannot be determined as Notion Ink doesn't have any production models to send to reviewers yet.

        • Android Boi

          I personally think Pixel Qi is hyped. Why aren't other tablet manufacturer's out with it. Must be a reason?

          I really want to how good the touch technology is on it. The UI experience is one of the most important things.

    • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

      Vikram, you cannot be farther from the truth. We would welcome Adam with full embraces if it were an actual, real product in production that we can touch, feel, turn on, and review. As it stands now, Rohan said himself 1-2 weeks ago that all he had were engineering samples, and production hasn't started yet. Tough for us to accept? It wouldn't be if Notion Ink weren't making it so hard.

      • http://justanytime.blogspot.com vikram

        Artem, why dont you realize that its a preorder....and which company you've seen that gives full info about the product before preorder...for the sake of demonstrating it to to customers....they have been showing it for almost a year now....wait till the shipping happens....you'll get to see it for your self.....

        btw there are many things which are tough to accept..... specially something which is quite different from the rest....so nothing wrong with you..its understood!

  • Rich

    Wow. You guys are really educated.

    CES is not *only* for theoretical products. Many, many products have been released or announced as soon to be released surrounding CES.

    Also, Notion Ink shared NVIDIA's booth last year and will likely do the same this year. The Tegra2 is a big selling point, something that NVIDIA would like to advertise AND it gives Notion Ink prime booth space.

    I mean, really. "Android Police"? You're as stupid as the real cops.

    • John D.

      I don't really get why these kinds of comments can get so personal.

      • Rich

        Really? Is that a serious question?

        The article is written by one person who was obviously extremely emotion. How can comments not be personal? They've displayed an extreme lack of intelligence.

        • brad

          If anyone is acting emotional, I think its Rich.
          If you look at the entire picture, you can and do question the validity of the company.
          Now sharing the booth with Nvidia last year may of been the case. We will have to look up and see if that was the case, as Im sure nvidia will have this on there website. And so would ces2010 exhibitors list.
          Either way, the questions and the doubts are in everyway, VALID.

          Where is the fully functional working model.

          Why does it take 8 days to create a video of the working model.

          Why does Notion Ink not expose that they have capital to fund the production of the units. Without relying on consumers pre-orders.

          Now, your response to saying that I mean, really. “Android Police”? You’re as stupid as the real cops.

          Honestly, how childish is that statement.

          And this blog is basically a personal opinion and not personal attacks.

          So dont take it so personally, answer with some type of educated opinion.

          • Rich

            I think it seems par for the course at this website that two sentences in my initial response are being singled out as opposed to two paragraphs that embarrass the author for not doing his due diligence in research.

            Brad, there is no reason to check if NVIDIA shared a booth with NotionInk. It takes a real quick google.

            Insofar as your complaints regarding the product, I'll repeat what is obvious: The only thing that was announced to change was the date of preorder. This preorder was done, as was clearly and repeatedly stated on the blog and forums, to give loyal customers a chance to reserve the first batch.

            There was never a promise of videos, images, etc. Individuals chose to go ahead with the preorder on their own, not through some direction of Notion Ink.

            The exposure of an ill-formed, poorly researched, knee jerk reaction personal "opinion" news blog opens one up to "personal opinion" about the author.

            Now, again, if you don't like my description of the author, and this sites, intelligence feel free to pay attention to the substance of my initial post and not the throw-away sentences.

        • brad

          Again, this site is not the only site questioning the validity of this company.

        • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

          Rich, we're asking questions and getting barely any answers. The Notion Ink followers are reminding me of a cult following, with defensiveness and denial being the first reaction. Anyone with a bit of business sense has multiple alarms sounding off right now.

          • Rich

            Judging from the article, I'd say you may want to start your authors searching Google for answers before they write anything.

            And yes, everyone has asked questions for a long time and gotten few results. There was no anticipation that this would change for preorder, so the outrage amazes me. People seem to forget this is a start-up company and things aren't going to go perfectly. You wait and you watch. If they fail, no loss. If they succeed, you go for it.

            Also, really, was the cult comment necessary? I'm here criticizing the lack of even the most basic fact checking from the "Android Police" and I get lumped into a "cult"? Well done.

        • Rich

          I'm sure this isn't the only site. I really don't care about crunchgear though. At least they aren't being idiotic concerning CES.

          I mean, really, who thinks new products aren't announced for release at CES? Unbelievable.

        • brad

          I dont care how you described the author. Its your opinion. But wording it in a more educated way, might be more appropriate.

          Again, if buyers were only reading the notion ink blog, they would of seen this small print that you continue to make a point of. But not everyone is reading the fine print, and not everyone is a gadget geek fiend like so many of us on here obviously are.

          But there still is a question.

          Why does the company not show a full working version if they are taking orders.

          They are taking and asking for consumers that may or may not be educated enough to know that the web pages are simple images of a mock up, and or demo(one) that has ever been shown.

          The UI has always been shown as an animation.
          There has never been an actual video of the UI running on the unit.

          Now, sharing a booth with NVIDIA or any other company cannot and does not validate the company as a full fledged operational company with funding and backing to produce that so said unit.

          Nvidia and any chip manufacture will share a booth if you are using there product and it shows promise. But it does not say that it is backing the company and that the company is legit.

          • Rich

            Brad, what small print? All of these facts are easily accessible on the NotionAddicts forum and on the NI blog.

            You guys aren't helping by causing all of this concern. The preorder was clearly for people who wanted to reserve a product. Everyone knew there were no images or video or reviews. This wasn't a product launch. I know that's hard to understand since "launch" and "preorder" share so many letters.

            As for being "educated" in my responses...you mean like recommending Google? Or should I explain step by step how to use Google?

            Of course sharing a booth with NVIDIA doesn't mean they have a finished product...I don't think that was ever a topic, but it's a good way to distract from the obvious shortcomings that Android Police.

            Anyway, I'll say it again. No one was *ever* promised *anything* on preorder day except the ability to *preorder*.

            And, yes, I agree that those who haven't been following NI at all would be at a distinct disadvantage...but with a complete lack of advertising who is really going to stumble on their page? Probably the same people who buy the "Turn your house into a solar panel and sell electricity" programs.

    • brad

      I have been to many CES shows where items or units are demos and never materialize.

      There have been game units, laptops, etc etc etc.

      I think you can go to the CES2011 and if you look and take a poll of all the demos and I say DEMOS, that you will find a very small percentage make it to the market.

      Not long ago, there was a great article on this very fact.

      Notion Ink has a great idea. They might be very good designers and dreamers, but that does not make them good business men.

      It doesnt take much capital, especially since its in india, to set at a desk with four developers and dream up and idea and have one demo unit made up.
      Notion Ink seems like that might be the case. I say Might Be.

      Until there are some conclusive answers.

      Im still on the fence.

      • Rich

        ...

        That's a great response if I was trying to articulate that every item at CES was going to be sold. Are you really that insistent in distracting from the lack of internet access at Android Police HQ? I mean, that's the only way they wouldn't know that the statement "CES is only for theoretical products years away from release." is false.

        But yes, you are correct. There remains *everything* to be seen about NI before anyone *should* buy the Adam. I, personally, decided last month to wait until I read reviews on the product.

  • brad

    David
    I want to say this after reading some of the posted remarks.
    In no way do I think that these gentlemen are exactly crooks. Crooks disappear after the money is in the bank and you never see them again. Rohan hasnt exactly disappeared.
    And just to be clear, I have all the confidence in the world that an Indian company can create and compete with the larger established companies of the world. But all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch.
    Of course if you are indian, you are going to defend a home grown company that essentially is the first of its kind to come out of India. If its valid.
    So all of those that are focusing on the 0.01 % that are making derogatory comments about india, just ignore them.
    But, still, anyone that looks at this company can still raise the flag that there is a suspicious way about it.
    Why does it take 8 days to create a video to show a working model.
    Why are they not listed on the exhibits for CES2011
    Where does the funding come from.
    How much capital have they raised.
    There are many unanswered questions that are not being answered. Even when I posted these questions on Notion Ink website, they were deleted.
    This, in my mind raises flags.

  • JasonX

    damn disappointed in them.
    How hard is it to even get a photo of a prototype?
    why all only pre-renders?
    get real people.
    i'm not calling him a scam yet.
    it may not be one.
    but considering there is not even a photo or a video of a working prototype, all i can say is...
    There is likely no prototype.
    Come on. Launch at CES?
    Releasing still photos before asking for pre-order will kill the launch excitement?
    good luck to all who preordered.
    you all have officially become guinea pigs for his new product.
    oh.. and its on AliBaba too...
    Investors see an idea, a working proof of concept before investing. Here all of you are pre-ordering (pre-funding... investing...) in him when there is not even a proof of concept shown.
    even I can render a 10" SAMOLED ipad killer with 12MP camera, 5mp ffc, 64gb front, with the highest spec Tegra2 chip. and a 6000MAH battery. why? cos none of them need to be real.
    i'll see the final outcome first... the twists and turns are good enough to make into a soap opera. I really hope they are real. but every step and story they say makes it all the more likely vaporware.

    i'll have more money for Xmas i guess. sad

    • Brian

      im not sure if its what you're looking for but back in november they have photos of what appears to be 6 prototype units stacked on top of each other. I suppose these could be fake but still seems like a lot of effort for a scam. In those shots the shadows and grain make them look pretty real.

      • Joe6Pack

        You are correct these do indeed appear to be real, but as you stated these are "prototypes" and not even shown to be running the software which by the way is still in beta as of now according to the blog, not enough info to invest my money as of yet. Rohan better wow us. BTW who would wait 8 days to defend their product (their only product, not even an established one). Everybody here would be satisfied with video snippets of the product in it's current state. I STILL want to believe though.

  • Eric H

    I do not believe this is actually a SCAM, although I think all the warning signs are there and people would be wise to say away for now. It will probably turn out to be a very poorly run company by a bunch of non experienced individuals.

    Since it looks like a SCAM I didn't preorder. I expect this thing will probably ship in a couple of months to the people that made a very risky decision, but ended up not getting screwed. However, I do feel the end product will be crap.

    Their poorly run company, distribution model, the crazy fees, warranty, return policy, etc. will keep me from ever buying an NI Adam. Maybe this thing will eventually get to a retailer like Amazon, but by then I will have bought another product from a well known trusted company.
    Up until the other day, I was sure I would own one of these very soon. Sad...

    • Sir Robin

      I am feeling the same way, I like what they promise but I really figure by the time these things are out there where you can see and hold them I will already have another model and searching for the next.

  • Luke Francis

    On the Notion Ink blog, they started heavily monitoring the comments and seems to have deleted tons of comments. There seems to be something fishy! Glad that I did not pre-order it for $500ish

    • Joe

      Yeah I had a ton of comments apparently deleted, and at worst they included links to stories like this one. Apparently they are really on damage control, trying to sweep things under the proverbial rug...

      • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

        No comments have been deleted, let's not get crazy here. The Notion Ink blog has paginated comments, so find the Previous Comments link, and they should all still be there.

        • brad

          I disagree. All my comments are now being moderated. And deleted.

          If you can find one brad comment that exist.

          Let me know.

        • Android Boi

          I disagree as well , they deleted my comments as well

      • Brian

        I don't see any of your comments. But if it says 'awaiting moderation' its simply awaiting initial approval. If someone posts a comment on a wordpress blog, by default it goes to a pending state where an editor can review them. I just started my own blog so I'm looking at the feature now.

        If you click on track my comments on the wordpress account banner, you can see all your recent published comments.

        There are a ton of highly critical/rude/angry posts that I see on any number of pages for comments in the last 3 posts. Why would they censor you and not the others?

        Like i said, the approval process means that the censorship, if it did exist, would likely be preemptive(as opposed to reactive), which does not fit with what I'm seeing. Then again I might be wrong.

        • brad

          Well they use to say awaiting moderation. Now they are gone. Basically if its up to Rohan to allow or deny replies or questions then anything that reflects the company in a negative manner is probably going to be deleted.

          I do see negative banter going on. But for some reason, the questions I pose or ask are obviously to risky to have on the blog when your trying to convince as many consumers as possible to pre-order your product.

        • brad

          So here is the questions I just now posted on Notion Ink blog.

          1. Why would it take over 8 days to create a video to show a working UI.
          2. What partners do you have in generating support and funding.
          3. Do you have capital to have orders fullfilled without preorders.
          4. Why are you not listed on the exhibit list for CES 2011 when you are stating that you will make a debut and unveiling there.

  • Android Boi

    @Artem

    Is there a easy way to put this at rest. There must be a way to verify that actually submitted something to the FCC or a testing firm.

    Can you(the blog) ask them for some type of proof that they submitted the device to the FCC.

    It should end all speculation right there

    • http://www.androidpolice.com/author/jaroslav-stekl/ Jaroslav Stekl

      Rohan is actually saying that he got six different FCC filings for the device, none of them traceable back to the Adam. Even more cause for suspicion.
      However, if we get a chance to interview him or talk to him in some other manner, we will make sure to ask him about the FCC filings.

      • Android Boi

        email if possible

      • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

        Pretty sure it's 1 per every variation, but I'm not 100% on that.

      • Brian

        found this site. searched for india, found a grantee name for notion ink. search below site for 'y2g' for the grantee code.

        https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GranteeSearch.cfm?calledFromFrame=N

        If the grantee requests confidential filing i think fcc obscures attachments. Not sure.

        • Android Boi

          I researched it and basically anyone can create the grantee code. Its the first 3 characters of the Fcc Id.

          We need the FCC ID of the product.

        • Brian

          yeah i dunno how to find that. took me long enough to find the grantee

    • Android Boi

      As of now noone can find there FCC ID, which is the problem.

      So I was wanting to see if they even submitted it to the FCC.

      Cause I am not sure if they even have. They will have to prove it, since we can't look up there FCC ID.

      • Brian

        that would be a good indicator of the vaporware vs real status, but i doubt we'll get that.

        To be fair, I dont know why any electronics manufacturers would purposefully divulge uncertified application details.

        FCC stuff wouldnt show the sw anyway. Just ugly bench pictures. Hopefully they will post one before dec 18th to assuage vaporware fears.

        • Android Boi

          It would prove they submitted something. For a company that swears that they will pass certification by end of dec.

          Is that so hard to do give us a FCC ID

  • Brian

    they arent listed on the ces10 list but they were there. pixel qi is listed on both. maybe they piggy back pixel qi to avoid booth fees. good question though, i'm sure theres a reason.

    • http://blog.laptopmag.com/ K. T. Bradford

      Just because a company doesn't have a booth at CES doesn't mean they aren't there. Some companies opt to just meet the press at hotels and such off site. I believe that's what they did when they first showed the tablet last year. For some companies, it's not worth the expense of a booth at the show, especially if they can get the press to come to their hotel and see the same stuff.

      • Brian

        yeah they were in the nvidia booth last year. Pixel qi had previously stated in an interview this year they wouldn't have a booth on the floor, but in a side room. Maybe NI will join them or maybe stick with nvidia again.

        • Android Boi

          For all the hype NI has created and the fact they say they have investor money.

          Not to mention the fact they say the Adam is truly a revolutionary device. You would figure they would spend some money and get a booth.

  • Jason

    Last time I saw youtube video which a india guy open the case showing the PCB under the Screen, It's still a exact same Nvidia Tegra Reference Develop Board.Scam.....

    • Brian

      I don't understand your logic. Which video is this anyway?

      from wikipedia: Reference design refers to a technical blueprint of a system that is intended for others to copy. It contains the essential elements of the system; however, third parties may enhance or modify the design as required.

    • brad

      There is a video on youtube with Rohan demonstrating a demo unit to the Indian Tech TV host. The piece of plastic/glass falls off and he takes it off. about 3 minutes into the youtube video. The face plate falls off. And he holds it in his hand. And he explains that they are working on fixing the problem. Im supposing thats what this person is talking about.

  • Homer321

    I can throw $550 as gamble money. Well... everyone is not cutout for taking risks. That's why they have professions where you can make money by scaring people, like Law. There will always be Shylocks in the world too!

  • Hody

    Funny ...

    Who was asked SSN ? Some US cuatomers had a redirect to the US Bank's verification site to REALLY confirm some company in India or China is selling a product... Really .. How can someone outside the mighty US sell a product ? It has to be a scam. Yeah, Betcha.... I heard it as I sat at Wallmart :) while I brosed my "Made in China" Dell Pc. So ask your US bank why they had to force its valued customers to punch the L:AST 4 digit of SSN.

    Android Police or David .. Every fear you had will unravel bit by bit. Like a strip tease bit by bit you will be made naked. And in a few months would love to come back here and check what you post.

    I can bet not a word of Adam. But still your pockets may be full when Apple and others may fill your pockets for all the effort you make in trying to kill thier competition.

    And I will browse on my AdaM TO check what new Venom yo spew on your ALERTS !!!!

  • justa

    Are you wondering what the potential import duty fee for returning a Adam to India from anywhere else in the world might be?

    ...try 30-50%!!!

    Good luck trying to figure out how to actually determine the duty, much less how to pay for it ;)

    see here for an idea: http://www.indiandata.com/electronics-computer-hardware-software.html

    This launch is hilarious!!!
    I wish NI the best of luck, but buyer beware. Too bad NI didn't target the domestic market for version 1.0 to work out all the kinks of, well you know, um starting up a global corporation and stuff. Much smarter to simply offer a "Tough Noogie" policy for international orders until they demonstrate a viable product.

  • Badfrog

    "In the end, I speak (with authorization) for the entire Android Police team: we’d like nothing more than to eat our words and see an Adam on our doorstep."

    ---Android Police

    Take a look at the whole blog before you decide that they are in Apples pocket and are trying to destroy the competition. Most of us are expressing concerns about the terms and conditions about a product we haven't seen. We also hope this product actually exists and that it ships

  • lord of s/w

    PAUL'S PREDICTION

    free! Absolutely free PUBLICITY is going on.
    Rohan and NI are gonaa more than happy.
    Publicity is publicity either good or bad.
    Now the peoples interest is increased more, they will follow this fiasco till end and When dust settle down, it will help NI.

    It will sell in good numbers and credit goes to NVIDIA, PIXELQI and ANDROID GINGER HONEY cocktail.

    • brad

      This is negative publicity and nobody with any business sense want negative publicity.

      When the damage is done, it cost more to regain the customers you have lost because you have to spend time, money and effort to regain the consumers confidence.

      Its free alright. But it is in no way what rohan or NI would want. Nor would any investor.

      Its not good business sense.

    • John D.

      Really? I had intention of buying an Adam but now I have to think twice before trusting them in providing the right product at the right time and postsale services!

  • lord of s/w

    i want to clear ond thing here.
    This IS NOT A @INDIAN@ TABLET.
    THIS IS PURELY @CHINA@ TABLET.
    Dont 'dare' to spoil india's name.
    Only the worker 'rohan' is indian.
    Notion ink is 'not' registered in india.
    Rohan is here to make $$.
    EVEN IN INDIA NOBODY KNOWS WHAT IS ADAM AND WHO IS ROHAN SHRAVAN. HE IS JUST A NORMAL GUY IN INDIA OUT OF MILLIONS. but he surerly have vision how to make$$.

    Being a indian i will closely follow this firm about their registration, licens, tax returns. If i found this firm faulty i will personally pull them to court.

    • Brian

      Pretty sure the team is indian. Rohit Rathi, Sachin Ralhan, Devanshu Agrawal, Anirudh Gupta, Mohit Gupta and Rajat Sahni.

      It's being manufacturered in china, but so are Ipads. They are incorporated in India is well. If they are successful I'm sure you'll continue to call it a chinese product eh?

      • Android Boi

        hey Brian,

        Where did you get that info? Linkedin?

  • lord of s/w

    @brian

    if they are successfull?
    They are surely going to successfull, no doubts.
    I will still call it chinese.
    Their success isnt going to help india and by the way who cares, rohan is here to make $$
    we indian do have lotsa other things to be proud of, NI is a such small thing that nobody notice and willing to notice it,

    who cares.

  • lord of s/w

    by the way, i have ordered one with pixelqi 3g.
    If i found that piece faulty, i will knock his house door and kick his a@@, he actually well knows how the indian mob is.
    As far as product is good and vfm,it didnt matter me who is selling it, where it is manufactured.
    I dont care @ NI AND rohan, afterall he is not doing charity.

    • Brian

      so to recap your posts.
      Free publicity is good.

      The tablet is Chinese, not Indian in anyway.

      The company is selling the product to make money. Rohan is a nobody but knows how to make money.

      You plan on personally performing financial audits of the company. Anything shady and you'll personally sue them.

      They will make money but you don't care. No one will notice. India has other things to be proud of.

      You have ordered one, but if it is of subpar build quality you will physically harm their CEO because you're a mobster and thats how you roll.

      Did i miss anything?

      • Amar

        If he is in India and found cheating us, definitely mob pressure will apply unless he is part of the political system (which is both mob and corrupt).

        People in India will not worry about reaching out to Rohan if he found to be cheating unless he is given shelter in European or Western Countries!

        • Brian

          Is cultural misunderstanding? My understanding of the word 'mob' is organized crime. So fraudulent businesses in India are not dealt with in courts? The mob exacts vigilante justice?

  • brad

    Anyones guess to why the date of Dec 18th is a date that Rohan wants to show off the unit.

    Could it be the next release of Android.

    But why would it be that, if they have there own UI that they are developing.

    This whole Dec 18th date is just perplexing me. And I still smell a fish. If you were going to create a video or running video, then it would take about a week to create, edit and design the graphics and animation.

    Could that possibly be it.

    • Brian

      occams razor.

      I don't think simply because the preorder went poorly that everything is suddenly a hoax.

      He doesn't have a million dollars to spend on advertising and pr so it's all being done in-house. Being new at this, he probably chose to do this in the wrong order. Video first before preorder would have been a better choice.

      There might have also been forces behind the scenes that forced him to take pre-orders now to justify their investment and so that he has sales figures to entice a second round of investment before/during CES.

      He mentioned that programs from eden are in beta. He probably wants them to look as sexy as possible before he demos them on video.

      Any of these scenarios is a simpler explanation than an extremely time consuming, costly and complex year long scam.

      • Android Boi

        Brian,

        Even if he a showed a teaser video that was "real". People would have backed him.

        No one is asking for a polished video. They want something to prove Notion Ink is for real. Even if the software is in beta a quick 1-5 minute video would have done wonders. But asking for 8 days, are you kidding me man.

        On there blog, they had a design UI contest. People who won, supposed were suppose to get discounts on there NI pre-order. That hasn't happened.

        Also they are suppose to ship a SDK out in the 3rd week of December.

        I mean c'mon you can't expect people to believe photoshop mockups. How stupid do they think people are. There mockups are also inconsistent on a UI side.

        Thinking back it kind of sad they cannot prove one real screenshot of the software they are suppose to have.

        If that doesn't scream vapor, I don't know what does.

        These things might work in the enterprise software world, but in the consumer world. Consumers want there moneys worth.

        Remember it on Notion Ink to prove to us they are worthy and not the other way around.

        It not one thing but everything together. That makes it smell fishy.

  • jetfin

    Just a note about the $50 shipping fee: For the vast majority of us who order items internationally this is a VERY good deal, especially considering that it's DHL.

    It's mainly US customers and people who have not done much international ordering (items from outside their own country/region) who are shocked about this.

    Yes, I have had some extremely cheap shipping deals on items purchased from China/HK but this also entails very unreliable shipping, no tracking and usually several weeks (i've waited up to two months once) until the item arrives here in Europe. This kind of bargain basement shipping is not appropriate for a product like the Adam.

  • rahi aravat

    @brad
    "At least apple had a real hold in your hand product that was sold to the masses on the day of its release. Apple does not and has not done preorders on beta equipment.

    If its not tangible and in your hand on the shelf for someone to touch use and buy, then its nothing.

    So dont compare apple, dell, HP or anyone to the poor management of NI.

    They are not even on the same level and at this rate, they wont be.
    "

    Why not buy Ipad then?

    Yes, we cannot compare Notion Ink(Adam) and Apple(Ipad) - neither in cost nor in features.

    • brad

      @rahi

      Well that wasnt the point. But since you asked.

      Apple has fantastic designs and fantastic PR. But when it comes to OS and openess and freedom, apple falls very short, and that my personal opinion and choice.

      I actually will be waiting for the just demoed Motorola Tablet or Toshiba Tablets. Im not sure, at this point, but I dont want and do not like apple products. Hence why Im blogging on a Android blog.

      If NI would of had a actual product when it went live and for order, then I would of considered it. But to not have actual product and taking money from consumers on a promise that the product will be delivered at a specific date and time without ever showing a real full working unit, is just bad business. And raises concerns.

  • http://www.erodov.com/ No Nonsense

    I believe the the author of this post , is looking at making a "quick and cheap way of getting publicity for himself" . Lets see if YOU have the Balls to respond to this once CES is done and when Adam does indeed do really well.

    Lets see if YOU can take full ownership of this report then . If you were a true journalist you would know what to do. Its because of people like you who live on cheap a** reports like this who don't actually do any investigating . But only speculate and make up stuff for your so called blog defame a good and upcoming company like Notion Inc.
    David if you have the balls get on to real journalism and do some REAL WORK and get the real scoop of this company rather than SIT ON YOUR seat and wrote bull shi*

    • brad

      I would like to know why so angry at the reporter.
      It is legitimant questions that NI has not answered.
      You have to admit. There is nothing that shows a full working UI and tablet. There are demos. But nothing tangible.
      Where is the actual working units. There are NONE available. If so, the units would be in your hands within a few days to a week. Not six to eight weeks.
      There is no info on the amount of capital they have for design and production support.
      Basically there isnt very much information at all about a full working unit.
      None.

      • Brian

        I agree with you about what we need to see on all points except for the amount of capital on hand for design and production. Thats not something you would disclose(or need to).

        • brad

          This is not true. PixelQI on there website posts the state of where they are for attracting and applying for more capital. Any startup will post and make public the amount of capital they have. Why, because it shows they are a legitimate company that has gained the trust of other investors and venture capitalists.

          Meaning they have a solid business plan.

        • Android Boi

          100% agreed with Brad

      • Brian

        yeah i'm still not following you on this one. If I'm looking to make an investment, I wouldn't rely on financial information divulged publicly on a blog.

        If they aren't asking for funding actively then they are probably being contacted by investors already.

        The blog is tailored to consumers, and the company isn't publicly traded. If it were me I'd communicate that kind of information to potential investors upon request only.

    • http://www.AndroidPolice.com Artem Russakovskii

      For the 100th time, when and if Adam does come out and we have it in our hands, we will review it objectively and post for everyone to see. Until then, all we have to do is ask questions and look for answers.

    • Deepak

      "No Nonsense", your id should have been "Full of Nonsense" Instead of blaming the reporter who brought things to light and put it out for everybody's knowledge, try to think atleast once before barfing like a dog. I bet you have a friend in NI or in someway associated with NI.

  • lord of s/w

    @brian

    my 'mob' definition is
    'commen united peoples of india'
    as far as checking things personally and doing audit of NI, Its unnecessory.
    There is other easy way available, look at this link

    righttoinformation.gov.in/

    At the end, who cares
    As i said ,If i found my ordered adam faulty then i am personally quite able to show them hel*.

  • /V

    I can't help myself from thinking that if ppl weren't such eager idiots (judging form the tons of "thanks guys! you saved me from buying!") the androidpolice could keep doing product reviews rather than poor man's michael moore investigations...

    (seriuosly guys, do you really need to READ IT ON A BLOG that you shouldn't buy anything you haven't seen??)

  • Lonford

    What a load of mindless crapping with little content and more animosity on parade.

    Everybody likes to compare .. Why don't folks compare every software product with Google and make a buy decision. If the product is bad, then simply do not buy.

    But what is sickening is that you passionately follow the product for over a year making all kinds of suggestions and inclusions and then when you have to put your money where the mouth is, you decide to back off, citing a million fees, shipping odd reasons.

    If those are the things that pinch you, do one of the following
    1. Wait for egghead/amazon/best buy to start selling.
    2. Wait for your tech crazy neighbour to show off one to you and then vow it and then ask him where to buy from.
    3. Tell yourself its all junk, I will buy the worldly view of Steve Jobs and will buy anything which has a half bitten apple on it.

    Whatever it is just move on, guys,, Everybody has teething problems and they will not get everything right in the first go.. No matter what.. If the product was built for the world at large, its obvious that it may not cater to all thing American. Try creating a company first and start delivering to know what it takes before you take jabs and some young kids who dared to dream and challenge conventional wisdom.

    You always have a choice.

    • Amar

      I do concur your views cent percent!

    • Android Boi

      @Lonford

      Not teething problems this bad. They have not PROVED they have a working production system.

      I have never seen a company build up so much hype and fail to deliver.

      Cut him some slack. Sorry buddy this is the real world. Start ups get created and destroyed every day. It on the start up to prove to us that they are worthy.

      If you still believe in Notion Ink after all the shady things they have done. Well I don't know what to say.

  • arcticfox

    Thought I'd share my comments recently posted in the NI blog here as there seems to be more sense being talked here and I am tired of negative (actually constructive) comments being moderated.

    Enjoy...

    To add to the “Emperors New Clothes” statement earlier:

    First, I didn’t think it would create quite such an extreme reaction, but I do not find it altogether surprising

    FWIW, I have been a long time follower of Adam (9 months*+) as one of only 2 tablets of any real promise for my needs – the other being the PlasticLogic Que which has already, sadly, proven to be vaporware. I still believe that the overall spec (form factor, screen, battery life, internals, camera design) is by far the most mature and “complete” design of any tablet to date. I have been generally appreciative of the quirky, rough around the edges style of Rohan’s communication and understand how engaging it has been and how it has helped to build an exceptionally (TOO?) strong brand loyalty for a product which does not even exist in the market yet (and which some people have good reason for worndering whether it will ever mae it to market). I am an engineer & project manager by background and now work as Programmes Director for a global defence company. I have very real interest in this device to underpin a major drive into the Contractorised Logistics Support business with warious Ministries of Defence, and had started to develop projects around the timings and expectations for Adam. I, until 2 days ago, genuinely believed that NI had the potential to really shake up the IT world and to potentially take on the “big boys”. The ambition & basic technology looked promising. I had signed up for the EAP, have a number of Android programmers awaiting the devices, and we already have maturing plans on how we will build a new business stream on the back of Adam. I have personally invested heavily – real money, real business resources and personal credibility – in Notion Ink, albeit knowing there was a degree of risk in doing so with an unknown new start. But until 2 days ago, I felt this level of faith was appropriate.

    Then came 2 days ago. The fiasco. The unmitigated disaster. And I realised how misplaced my faith had been.

    Don’t get me wrong – I had not expected a smooth ride. I always expected technical glitches – servers struggling, the odd dodgy link, mass e-mail/spam problems, a bit of confusion – and was making BIG allowances for that. But the reality was that even by comparison to my wildest nightmares, the pre-launch was a train wreck. A total, utter carnage of a train wreck. And primarily NOT because of the expected IT issues outlined above.

    The biggest problems for me were as follows:

    1) Countdown & timings. The general confusion associated with the specific timings of the rollout (picture reveals and eventually opening of pre-pre-order and pre-order) was a totally avoidable schoolboy error. NI should have used a well known time zone; made the timings clear on the splash page; made the date clear; NEVER use 00:00hrs as a time – it is ambiguous – use 00:01 and everyone is clear; use a simple countdown timer FFS!

    2)The (lack of) specs – even at a pre-order, you HAVE to give clarity on the basic specs. To still have confusion on the amount of storage is, quite frankly, unforgiveable. Whether I can use Android Marketplace is for me a minor detail, though I agree that an answer is required – even if it is still “We are working on it and hope to offer this, though perhaps not yet”.

    3) The delivery costs – not a major consideration for me, but still a shock that a better deal had not been done. I support my sister’s small web-based retail business which has, I reckon, a tiny fraction of the volume NI expects to have, and her worldwide delivery costs as negotiated with one of our UK providers make these seem laughable. While I applaud the aspiration for “One World” pricing, this patently does not stack up as a business model. OK, someone in downtown Kabul might be quids in – but the reality is that customers there or in the arse end of tibet will be few and far between. The volumes to go to SE Asia, Europe & the US should mean that it is here that the effort should be placed to cut costs to the bone. Even if you have 2 or 3 “tiers” of delivery pricing. And as an Indian company, which has made much of its Indian roots, I think more should have been done to get good pricing for the home market. The chatter & disappointment/incredulity on the blog would bear this out

    4) One World Pricing: well, again I applaud the sentiment. BUT the reality is that this has created a HUGE amount of problems. All it has done has been to shift much of the cost from NI straight onto the buyer. And the sad thing is, I don’t think most of the cult-following pre-ordering students and the like have the first idea of the ADDITIONAL costs that are about to hit them when a DHL man turns up on the doorstep demanding an extra 20 – 100% of the price to get the box he has in his hands. For me, at least this is a cost I understand, though it did take an hour or 2 to be sure how much it would be for me. A simple table on the website (or 20 lines of coding) would help customers interested in purchasing to know just how much the final bill will be. For some it won’t be pretty. And if you think there is bad feeling on the blog today, just wait til the start of Jan when people start paying nasty inexpected bills.

    5) Ts &Cs. This for me was the biggest problem. As someone primarily looking at Adam for business purposes, this is by far the most important thing to me. And what I saw truly appalled me. Where do I start?

    Firstly the quality of the English. This was of such poor quality, it was unintelligeble at points. It was certainly not written by even the poorest of lawyers. Or of it was, the Rohan, you need to sack those lawyers asap not to mention any legal advisors and your Legal Director. I am assuming you have a Legal Director. Though I am starting to have serious doubts.

    Secondly the inconsistencies. The Ts & Cs are so inconsistent that you begin to wonder which are the REAL ones. As a contract-wrigting/-signing businessman, I know that this only means BIG legal costs in due course if I try to resolve a problem down the line. Because it WILL end up in the courts to try and unpick the mess of Ts & Cs.

    Thirdly, the content of the Ts & Cs. I do not know whether they are consistent with current custom & practice in India (if they are, then I am shocked at the appalling level of consumer protection in India and pity its residents, because they are getting a shocking deal). What I do know as that these Ts & Cs are quite frankly illegal in Europe, and probably the US (they are certainly far worse than can be customarily expected in the US). Rohan, these Ts & Cs, far from “protecting” your business, actually damage it. Twofold. First, because a very high proportion of potential customers in Europe and the US will just walk away and not buy. Secondly because as unreasonable Ts & Cs, many will buy and, if things go wrong (and some things inevitably will), will immediately take you to court in their own countries. And bacause the Ts & Cs are so badly written and/or illegal, the customers will win. Your reputation will fall even further and legal costs will be high. By then it will be too late.

    It is all very well to dream of and aspire to having a single set of global Ts & Cs, warranties etc. Do you not think the Apples and Microsofts of this world have not thought about this, even tried it and invested heavily in trying to make it work? There are reasons why they do not do so!! And the biggest reason is that if you ARE going to put in a global set of Ts and Cs/Warranty conditions etc, then far from being at the lowest common denominator, it must be at the HIGHEST common denominator. And the aggregation of all the most customer-friendly terms in the world soon becomes prohibitively expensive for the company. So, Rohan, much as I do not want to burst your bubble and shatter your dreams, for the sake of NI, its employees, its (hopeful) customers and your own credibility and sanity, please learn this lesson quickly and get decent, legally sound, local Ts & Cs for each market.

    Going still further on the content, many terms fall into the category of “unreasonable terms in contracts of adhesion”. If you think that I as an individual, never mind on behalf of a business to which I owe a dity of due dilligence, am going to sign to say that you (NI) has the right to vary terms at any time for any reason at will and to anything you choose, then think again. OK, I know that these Ts & Cs will never stand up in court, but I have better things to do with my time than ever get into court, and it is far easier for me to give my money to almost any other company than yours safe in the knowledge I am far less likely to have to take you to court. And why the hell should I sign up to oaying you extra to sort a problem such as DOA??? If you do not send me a working product, then that is YOUR problem & YOUR cost to resolve. And if your warranty & general Ts & Cs do not reflect this, then I have to wonder why. Have you not done your homework and factored the costs of a small %age of duff items into your overall pricing structure? Is your quality so poor that you think this is the only chance for you to survive? Do you even have a proper customer support department set up to resolve problems? The more I read and re-read these Ts & Cs, the more suspicious I am that this is a group of (admittedly competent and innovative) engineers with absolutely no business sense, insufficient funding, no credible business structure and insufficient investment in the support side of the business to be a company I should trade with.

    And furthermore with regard to the Ts & Cs, I have certainly seen some unreasonable/illegal similar terms to the one “we have the right to vary out terms at will”. But I have NEVER before witnessed those Ts & Cs being rewritten, rereleased, moved and the like THREE TIMES in the first 24 hours. How can I in all conscience trust my company’s many to invest in a company which behaves like that?? I cannot!

    And so, Rohan, I am very disappointed. Though perhaps I am also slightly grateful to have been brought to my senses now, before I have invested money in your products, not to mention 1000s of man hours in developping software & solutions based on your products. I will now be rewriting my project plans and watching with interest to see which of the 50+ tablets at CES have sufficient credibility to align with. Who knows – NI may still be a strong contender. Though your competitors will soon be snapping at your heels. And you can be sure that you have now a huge amount of remedial work to do to get me to buy your products after what I have now witnessed. It will take at least 6 and probably 12 months. And if something better comes along in the meantime, I will buy that instead.

    So Rohan, I wish you well, I really do. I hope you learn a lot from the failure of the last few days. If you are to survive in business, you will need to! But I for one have to sadly surmise that the chances of your business surviving 12 months are very low. Your product may be good – from what I have seen, it probably is – but as a business, you clearly do not have the infrastructure, funding, legal and business advice and competence to survive against the big boys.

    And so I stand by my “Emperors New Clothes” statement. I know that this will not please the “caught-up-in-the-cult-of-Adam” fanbois for whom every minor setback just reinforces their blind and mis-placed faith that it is a “sign” that NI and their dreams will one day conquer the world despite all rational evidence to the contrary. This is the stuff of which doomsday cults are made. I almost fell for it myself. But for those of you only slightly caught up in the euphoria and hype, I hope that this will be a wake-up call. It is only a tablet. It is only another underfunded, poorly run tech startup with huge dreams and bugger all chance of realising them. There have been many before. There will be many to follow. A few will succeed. The world will keep turning. And I’m off to walk the dog.

    • Amar

      Could go through this lengthy diatribe predicting demise of an young entrepreneur; Just on TC, which seems to be too much for everyone (apparently), since NI wants to sell everything under One Globe policy, having 2 months or one month time for returning used goods (also, un-used) would kill him in his own turf(India) where people have the tendency to abuse this policy. Local system is miserably in favor entrepreneurs just because of this. I am not justifying TCs but you need to consider his age and the ecosystem in which he grew up (that does not mean Westerners need to accept this policy).

      • arcticfox

        @Amar

        Your point re. the local ecosystem Rohan gre up in is well made - I accept the need to protect against abuse in any particular regional market. But that is therefore inconsistent with the otherwise laudable aspiration for a One Globe policy. To have a global policy which neither opens a business to excessive abuse in a particular area but which does not infringe on the laws in other markets is not currently achievable. That Rohan perhaps didn't understand this I can accept. That lawyers, investors or business advisors did not bring this to his attention and put a stop to it before the train wreck of the last few days leads me to question the maturity and credibility of this business with global ambitios.

        • Amar

          @articfox,
          Thanks for understanding and I wish Rohan understands such limitations and be sensitive to certain market, not just One Globe Policy.

  • hairscratcher
    • arcticfox

      Don't get me wrong - unlike others, I do not think that NI is a scam, far from it. But the events of the last few days lead me to have serious concerns as to whether NI has the basic funding, advice, experience and basic business skills to survive and suceed in what is a fast-moving, cut-throat market place.

      I very much admire what Rohan has achieved with a small start up - he has got far further than most. But the cracks really showed up in the last 2 days, and he has a lot of work to do to get things back on track. With 50+ tablets likely to be launched @ CES, the market is only going to get more difficult for NI and I am not conviced their product alone (good as it appears in theory at least) will be enough to see them succeed. Some hard-nosed business common sense is now badly needed.

    • Android Boi

      Not until we see a real working production ready product that has been reviewed.

  • SiliconAddict

    " technology that has years of development ahead of it before it is ready for consumers."

    What the hell are you talking about....that is so far from the truth its not even funny.

  • Android Boi

    Rohan calls out AndroidPolice. Is it just me or for a CEO is his english writing skills just horrible.

    I can't believe this guy went to IIT Kanpur, IIT system in suppose to best the best schools in India.

    "Have a page where you can enter address much before you can press BUY button. (the design team had suggested that you HAVE to write the address again on the Payment Page on CCavenue and this would cause a lot of repetition for use, passing address directly to their page has some security issues. Android Police suggested, that since we are not doing this, we are a scam. Hmmm)"

  • http://www.smick.net Smick

    This comment thread has been shot to hell. And Android Police REALLY need to adjust their article. Clearly Notion Ink was at CES last year. Dozens of videos confirm it with (small) presentations, discussions in the Nvidia booth.

    It's not to be assumed they will be with Nvidia again, but they can be in a booth and not be on the exhibitors list and it's not unbelievable. No need to inject unnecessary wolf crying. Enough questions are out there already, like where is the FCC filing? Under what name?

    When I ordered mine, I wasn't asked for my SSN and I chose 3G. I guess some were asked earlier. Whatever. As far as I'm seeing, the changing of the T&Cs was a result of corrections for the better. I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

    I don't know what kind of outcome this will have but people relax! If you didn't put down the money, don't worry about it. I mean you have a right to complain but keep it in balance with your situation. I bought one and I'm wondering what's gonna happen now, with my money and what kind of device I'll end up with. So it's probably a blessing in disguise.

    Maybe given the systems in place the Adam won't come out for another year and will be better when it does due to the growing pains. I'd offer my services to the company to help streamline PR and get the US position in tact, but it's not like they are asking for help. I don't know man just I want people to chill and not create unnecessary arguments about cultures or attacking people. It's just a damn tablet in the end. It's not a savior of humanity.

    • Android Boi

      @Snick

      AndroidPolice never said they were not at CES 2010. They and we here are questioning why they do not have a booth at CES 2011. Supposedly it is going to be a big unveiling for them.

      Makes no sense.

      • bryan

        they were at 2010 but had no booth

        they have no booth at 2011 does not mean they are not there...

        this logic is not hard to comprehend. Android police SHOULD add this to their page... its a misrepresentation of the facts. I'm not saying the whole post is bad, just saying they have this info and they replied to it.. so add it to the article...

      • http://www.smick.net Smick

        @Android Boi, you misspelled my name.

        I'll restate my position about CES

        Quote: Android Police
        "Update #4: If Notion Ink is planning to unveil Adam at CES, why are they not listed in the CES exhibitors list?"

        The question has a believable answer, "they don't need their own booth to be there" and by leaving the question up, it's more perpetuating the "this is scammy" perception and it's unnecessary. It's remains up as if it needs to be proven to be legitimized, when it doesn't. I can prove that CES2010 Notion Ink was there with a prototype, therefore there's no reason to question for 2011.

        Here's an acceptable way to reword that comment / question and still be snarky but more honest. "For Notion Ink to be unveiling their final product at CES2011, why not spend the $40/sq foot for their own booth."

        The MORE important question they need to research is WHERE IS THE FCC FILING for Notion Ink adam? The FCC filing is an actual claim made by Rohan at Notion Ink, so therefore proof can be demanded. I personally haven't found it. I've yet to see a link to an entry on FCC site. But if somebody has seen, please share.

    • Android Boi

      Why would a company that is a startup like Notion Ink file there FCC under a different name?

      Makes no sense. You can always ask some of the documents you submit to the FCC be withheld to the public.

      Even suggesting that they would that seems really shady.

      Until they prove that they submitted something to the FCC. I can't trust that they have.

      If we find out that they never submitted anything. That means you can't trust there word on anything. They have said in the "early 20" (another point to prove Rohan can't write) but anyway by the end of Dec, accordingly to them they should clear the FCC.

      First prove NI that you submitted something.

  • Android Boi

    another quote from Rohan. Can someone translate that.

    "...We have extremely high number of normal LCD panels available, and that wont even go out of production (total number of these panels manufactured runs into millions a months)"

    • bryan

      that they are limited by PQ for how many PQ adams they can produce, but are not limited by LCD for how many LCD screens they can produce?

  • Android Boi

    @AndroidPolice

    We really need blogs like to this to help the consumer and keep product makers in check.

    That is the great thing about technology in general. You can't fool people for long.

    Just want to say thanks, this blog post was more detailed and fact relevant than most out there.

    Thanks again

  • Myria

    I can't believe Notion Ink hasn't posted some current pics/video of a finished unit yet. Doing so would put an end to this debate quickly, not doing so -- or giving an ever-moving, if long after collecting money, date when you'll supposedly do so -- says volumes... None of it good.

    Seriously, NI, just post a video of a finished unit. I doesn't have to be a great video, or even particularly in-depth, you can even shoot it with another Adam if you want extra credit points. Either that, or come clean with people and admit you don't have a finished unit. Hell, half the insane cultist posting on your site wouldn't mind if you admitted not having a finished unit yet, and the rest of the blogosphere could move on to something else.

    • http://www.smick.net Smick

      No kidding. A video even if they needed to blur out some secret parts would be fine. I want to see responsiveness, the actual hardware I'm getting and and how the software works. They should crank that out in 2 days rather than over a week. The problem is a week is long enough to fake some stuff with CG. Which is exactly what you don't want.

      You could argue that a polished video takes a week, but let's be frank. NI is using a WordPress.com blog with no branded graphics, spelling and grammar issues. It's a little late to be picky about certain things. I don't get what the delay is other than the software isn't ready for a demo yet.

  • hn

    The Adam has two selling points:
    1. great processing hardware
    2. Pixel-Qi transflective display

    The soon-to-be-announced Motorola Hoenycomb tablet shares the same processor.

    As for the display, Pixel-Qi's web site:
    http://pixelqi.com/blog1/2010/09/17/pixel-qi-tablet-availability-diy-screen-success-and-other-updates/
    states that they expect a 7" display during H1/2011.... (on the same page they mention their alliance with Notion-Ink).

    I don't know if anyone actually pre-ordered the Pixel-Qi version.
    I sure hope, one exists, and that they'll get it before the end of "H1/2011"

    • http://www.smick.net Smick

      There's more than 2 selling points, but to answer your question, I pre-ordered a 3G Pixel Qi tablet. I REALLY hope the Dec 18 video is great and mine arrives pristine and awesome. But I'm making a gamble.

      other selling points, nice camera feature, battery life (supposedly) is higher than others, the design (that's a personal taste thing), the HDMI out, the rear touch panel (which we're not really sure about), 3 USB ports, digitizing support. So it's a few more than just screen. In fact, I'd be tempted to get the LCD version if the Pixel Qi never existed. The price is comparable to other tablets. The iPad is LCD, nobody typically complains about that.

  • brad

    Just because pixelQI says they are in a partnership or an alliance with Notion Ink, does not in any way mean they have a financial interest. They are only providing support and the actual hardware for any development for demo units or when it ever happens, the actual production units.

    As where pixelQI has statements and proof that they are going through the actual process of seeking investors for capital, Notion Ink does not.

    Now this is completely the way I see it from the outside. But PixelQI has not said it has a financial interest in Notion Ink.

    They way I see it, Notion Ink has grown to popular and gained alot of interest and they were caught with there pants down. Its possible that they were just unaware of the problems and suspicion that would arise when they started taking orders for something that does not exist.

    They needed to plan with a legal team that has experience with international business. Indian, chinese, or any other country that does not have the legal documentation that proctects the company and the consumer will never be trusted.

    This is a case that Notion Ink has become to big to fast. And to me, that is simply very bad business planning.

  • David Ruddock

    Let me direct you all to our most up-to-date post on this issue:

    http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/12/11/our-response-to-notion-ink-ceo-rohan-shravans-latest-blog-post-on-the-adam/

    Please leave comments there - this thread is getting a little unwieldy.

    Thanks,

    David

  • Jason

    Hi Bard,

    Check about 8:17:
    http://tv.slashgear.com/notion-ink-adam-tablet-full-demo-hands-on-835/

    Nvidia Tegra Development Kit PCB:
    http://developer.download.nvidia.com/tegra/docs/tegra_250_hw_setup.pdf

    I's Exact the Same Board, and Same I/O port Location Except missing VGA port(Of course), even debug button.

    But, Who use Development Kit PCB in Product version?! I know this video is about 1 year's old already. If they changed the Design later, I am stand corrected.

    • bryan

      i already replied to you. Have you ever designed a product before? In school we have a 1 year design project where we build something, do you really think they will build a custom PCB for a test model? Seriously? They are going to use a Dev board like EVERYONE else does. This proves nothing, except they designed it the same way any engineer in the world would go about builting a prototype. if this was a test production model you have a point... but its not.. so stop spamming this useless garbage when I already told you this on your last post.

  • H.D

    With Nvidia setting the minimum order for Tegra-2 chips on 100.000 chips ... would NI even be able to handle that? Sounds a lot for startup...

    H.D

    • John D.

      Maybe that's why they needed the pre-order thingy!

  • Rick

    Buying a tablet is in my shopping list for 2011. I was very impressed with the specs with NI's Adam, and was also researching what IPad 2 is going to have. Compared to the rumoured Ipad 2, NI's Adam has pretty much everything i wished in a tablet. But, NI has messed up their PR part very badly. If they really have a product (which i want to believe they have) that they claim, i think it would have been better if they had started the PreOrder process only after they have a product in their warehouse. I think they would have done themselves a great deal of good by avoiding any bad press.Again as someone suggested, its their inexperience. I hope they learn from this and are better organized next time. Anyways, i will be waiting for the actual product to arrive in the market, see its reviews before i buy the product, even if it means i have to wait for some months.
    And please stop all the racist and stereotypical typecasting of a country or race. Lets not forget the Madoff's and the Lehmann Brothers are all from US and they swindled in billions. All i am saying is a swindler could be anywhere in the world, from the swanky streets of manhattan to the jungles of amazon..!!!. So if this guy turns out to be a fraud, then i would not blame his country of origin or his race. I would just say he is one of the many Frauds in this world. So give all the racist "jargons" a break.If this guy turns out to be fraud, then i am sure the Indian laws are prety strong to make his life miserable.
    And to be always on the safe side, I would wait till the actual product comes in, even if it means waiting for couple of more months.

  • Deepak

    I agree with you Rick.. But the return policy definately seems to be shady/Scam. I am from India but still dont see the need for a SSN or PAN#. if they are moderating and deleting some specific posts then no matter how you put it, people are going to get suspicious. Without looking at a working model and even with the existing return policy, i would never buy it unless they make a separate distribution center in US for their device. The "No Nonsense" guys post is ridiculous, he doesnt know his head from his a&^e. All in all, I think wise decision would be to wait for it to actually come into the market and only after reviews from the early users and some changes to the return policy, would it fly well in the market. I think they need to tieup with reseller in each country for their sales. There are some people who are emotional and talking crap getting emotional over nothing. I hope Rohan or even the company is not a scam for their own good, else their future is gone (for a bunch of IIT'ians).

  • Jagger_nought

    Well a bunch of people who haven't "pre-ordered" (drum-roll for the emphasis, remember it is not a launch) the ADAM are slinging mud at it. Good for you guys, the guys who have actually ordered it apparently have no qualms with the process. Albeit the whole process was cumbersome and somewhat a hash but I call them teething troubles. If I remember right at no point of time did anyone promise them any photographs or videos of the device before or at "pre-order" and they took the risk.

    In today's world every company is secretive about their product till they think that the time is right. Some are secretive even after.

    Someone questioned the innovations in the product. Let me tell you everything is simple after someone actually does it. But then the ADAM does have 89 patents to its name weren't those things supposed to be given for making something new. I wonder.

    Whether or not and when NI want to publish pics or videos of the actual production version of the ADAM is up to them. If you do not believe in the product wait till its full release instead of partaking in worthless slander.

  • James Fernandes

    One word to describe the product ... vapourware or (vaporware, for those in the US)!!!

    Yes, you the consumer are being asked to fund a product that is the pipe dream of a few engineers and an MBA who realise that they are now unable to actually deliver once they came off their high.

    Reality check is what they required, then; but, now they are stuck in the process of having to deliver and the only way out is to keep conning the people, changing terms and conditions and trying to buy some sympathy via blogs. The videos are total bogus with bad lighting and could easily have been fabricated.

    I wish this product sees the light of day, I really do. But Xmas is coming along and I don't see Santa as a reality, either.

    Be aware.

  • http://www.google.com/ Mishka Fishka

    Hello, This is Mishka Fishka, i really like that post, you are doing a great job. Thanks.

  • primarycloud

    Hi, I am one of those addicts that just placed an order for the NI Adam. And wish you all a lot of luck with your tablet choice; But most definitly buy one you will.